What should happen to members of Congress who aided in the breach of the Capitol?

[Serene]

Define force. If people daisy chained themselves all around the building so Congress couldnt enter, would that be force? Or if they had just entered and then done chants but not physically got in the way?

I am just one that is pretty generally going to side with the little people over the government. The actual members of Congress were not interfered with, could just be because they got away, but none were accosted. And that distinction matters, to me at least

I would say that those would not count as force, unless the protesters violently attacked police when they tried to break the picket. I don't think a lot of people entering the building committed sedition--probably trespassing and unlawful entry, but that is what it is and happens for lots of protests. However, anyone physically attacking police lines to break through or busting down doors and breaking windows to gain entry probably deserve the charge.

I don't think the fact that members of Congress got away without being accosted was from lack of trying on the part of some of the people breaking into the Capitol, and I don't think charges should be softened because intents couldn't be followed through on. But again, I don't think that people should be charged with things for just being there; I think people should be charged with exactly the laws that they broke. I think the same logic should be applied for any protest that has violent elements.

 

[LouderVol]

I would say that those would not count as force, unless the protesters violently attacked police when they tried to break the picket. I don't think a lot of people entering the building committed sedition--probably trespassing and unlawful entry, but that is what it is and happens for lots of protests. However, anyone physically attacking police lines to break through or busting down doors and breaking windows to gain entry probably deserve the charge.

I don't think the fact that members of Congress got away without being accosted was from lack of trying on the part of some of the people breaking into the Capitol, and I don't think charges should be softened because intents couldn't be followed through on. But again, I don't think that people should be charged with things for just being there; I think people should be charged with exactly the laws that they broke. I think the same logic should be applied for any protest that has violent elements.

I agree with this.

I am just leery of how wordy these laws are.

 

[hog88]

I agree with this.

I am just leery of how wordy these laws are.

I think any charge of sedition would be hard to prove in court. That's why they should be charged with treason and face the death penalty.

 

[Serene]

I agree with this.

I am just leery of how wordy these laws are.

Lawyers and senators have to try to justify their salaries somehow.

 

[LouderVol]

I think any charge of sedition would be hard to prove in court. That's why they should be charged with treason and face the death penalty.

They are all guilty of treason. Giving aid to enemies of the United States is a nice catch all for all Congress types.

 

[LouderVol]

Lawyers and senators have to try to justify their salaries somehow.

Lucky for both they have the power to justify themselves. Quiet the scam.

 

[lawgator1]

Please provide ANY ounce of proof that Congress members "Showing them weaknesses and entries and exits to secure areas, that sort of thing"

One of the organisers of the Capitol riot has said that his plot was aided by three Republican congressmen.
In a now deleted video, conservative talking head and activist Ali Alexander said he worked alongside three Republican lawmakers to plan the attack on the US Capitol.

Mr Alexander claimed Reps. Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks and Paul Gosar helped him plan the protest that led to the attack on the building. He said its intention was to put pressure on lawmakers inside to overturn the election in favour of Donald Trump.

Organiser of Capitol riot Ali Alexander claims he had help from three Republican congressmen

Here’s a breakdown of what we know so far:

What’s been alleged?

Some members of Congress, including those who say they’re trained to spot suspicious activity from their time in the military, said in a letter that they witnessed an usual number of outside groups visiting the complex on Jan. 5, the day before the riot. They allege some of those visitors may have been involved in the deadly insurrection the following day.

Some members of Congress grew suspicious because the only people who could have facilitated such tours, they contend, are fellow lawmakers. One Democrat said the emergency call buttons were removed from her office. Another said pipe bombs found earlier in the day were a clear diversionary tactic to get Capitol Police to leave the perimeter. Many have also questioned how the rioters knew their way around the maze of the Capitol so quickly and why only liberal offices appear to have been targeted.

“Stop the Steal” organizer Ali Alexander further exacerbated these theories when he claimed that three Republican House members – Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar of Arizona and Mo Brooks of Alabama – had helped him plan the rally. Biggs and Brooks have explicitly denied a role. Gosar has not commented on his alleged involvement.

Capitol riot: What we know about allegations of inside help






You will note that I am specifically phrasing the issue, and the question, as what happens IF it turns out there was some form of knowledge or cooperation or assistance.

 

[LouderVol]

Organiser of Capitol riot Ali Alexander claims he had help from three Republican congressmen







Capitol riot: What we know about allegations of inside help






You will note that I am specifically phrasing the issue, and the question, as what happens IF it turns out there was some form of knowledge or cooperation or assistance.

So they are suspicious because of "an usual number of groups"

I am typically not going to bust balls for mistypes, but when it completely changes the outlook on things, come on.

 

[Serene]

Mr Alexander claimed Reps. Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks and Paul Gosar helped him plan the protest that led to the attack on the building.

Even if this turns out to be true, I don't think it's enough to convict. If they thought they were helping to plan a peaceful protest, then I don't think they broke any law. The fact that the protest turned violent doesn't change that if they didn't intend for that to happen. If they can reasonably argue such, it will be a tough defense to beat. Even Alexander says, "We four schemed up of putting maximum pressure on Congress while they were voting. [We hoped to] change the hearts and the minds of Republicans who were in that body, hearing our loud roar from outside." Now, Alexander himself definitely has other things in his history that suggest intent to do more than protest, but I'd say we need more evidence of the same from the lawmakers.

And that's not to say I don't think that some members of Congress are above this or that it didn't happen, I just don't think we have the evidence (yet). Civil liability is an interesting question--it's probably much easier to argue that they were negligent or should have reasonably expected this than to prove intent without extremely solid evidence.

 

[lawgator1]

So they are suspicious because of "an usual number of groups"

I am typically not going to bust balls for mistypes, but when it completely changes the outlook on things, come on.

It is almost all circumstantial right now in that it is matching up the tours, arranged by Congresspersons, a belief that the people on the tours then showed up in the riot, and the fact that the rioters seemed to know where to go, when ordinary citizens would not.

The only direct evidence is the statement of one of the arrested persons, who says that three GOP Trumpster Congresspersons helped him. Two of the three have denied it, the other has not responded.

My assumption is that investigators are looking at whether there is evidence of planning or communication in which they were involved. If so, I think they are looking at substantial criminal liability.

 

[VolStrom]

I only read the last page of this thread, but did anyone else vote impeach them since it only takes a couple of hours and a vote?

 

[hUTch2002]

The key word is force, which would prevent it being applied to an honest protest. People who were peacefully protesting at the Capitol should not be charged with sedition, only those who used force or conspired to use force.

Including those there to “document” the situation yet is on camera “conspiring to use force”? Seems to fit your definition so I’d assume that’s a yes. Conspiracy is a funny word though. You can throw a whole lot under that umbrella and there are some Dems that certainly did far more to inspire violence than Trump. I’ll be curious to see how everyone behaves when he’s finally gone.

 

[Serene]

My assumption is that investigators are looking at whether there is evidence of planning or communication in which they were involved. If so, I think they are looking at substantial criminal liability.

If they find evidence that lawmakers helped organize with the knowledge that it would be violent, I say they deserve the maximum sentence (seditious conspiracy, not treason). That's really not all that far-fetched; if it actually happened and they weren't very careful to avoid incriminating themselves in conversations (and let's be honest, these guys are probably not geniuses when it comes to this stuff), it wouldn't surprise me for federal law enforcement to track those conversations down. I still think it's more likely than not that nothing comes out of it, but it would certainly be interesting.

 

[Serene]

Including those there to “document” the situation yet is on camera “conspiring to use force”?

I'm not sure I follow your meaning.

 

[lawgator1]

If they find evidence that lawmakers helped organize with the knowledge that it would be violent, I say they deserve the maximum sentence (seditious conspiracy, not treason). That's really not all that far-fetched; if it actually happened and they weren't very careful to avoid incriminating themselves in conversations (and let's be honest, these guys are probably not geniuses when it comes to this stuff), it wouldn't surprise me for federal law enforcement to track those conversations down. I still think it's more likely than not that nothing comes out of it, but it would certainly be interesting.

It would be absolute long prison term if they knew of violence. 10 years-plus.

If they knew simply of planned breach into areas where the public is not allowed to go, or they facilitated or even knew of it in any way in advance and did not stop it, then still prison in my mind, absolutely, but perhaps something on the order of just a few years.

 

[lawgator1]

I only read the last page of this thread, but did anyone else vote impeach them since it only takes a couple of hours and a vote?

One would assume that if there were evidence of participation or advance knowledge of a breach of a secure area that the rest of the GOP would want nothing to do with that person and would join in a vote to remove the person from office.

 

[VolStrom]

One would assume that if there were evidence of participation or advance knowledge of a breach of a secure area that the rest of the GOP would want nothing to do with that person and would join in a vote to remove the person from office.

Quit feigning outrage you double standard puke. Your liberal buddies burned down almost every liberal city over the summer and you didn't get raw over that.

 

[allvol123]

Send them off to live in Chaz.

 

[lawgator1]

Shiz is getting real.

Freedom Caucus Chair Andy Biggs Helped Plan January 6 Event, Lead Organizer Says

The head of

the House Freedom Caucus, Republican Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona, helped plan the January 6 event that culminated in a storming of the Capitol, according to Ali Alexander, a lead organizer of the gathering. Alexander, a pro-Trump personality, was an early founder of the “Stop the Steal” movement and helped bring together various right-wing factions around a mass event on January 6, aimed to coincide with objections to the counting of Electoral College votes.

Alexander made his claim in three separate livestreams in late December, adding that Reps. Paul Gosar of Arizona and Mo Brooks of Alabama were also involved. “We’re the four guys who came up with a January 6 event,” Alexander said. On December 8, the Arizona Republican Party boosted Alexander, asking supporters if they were willing to give their lives in the fight over the results of the presidential election.

His claim is also buttressed by a fourth video from a December 19 rally at the Arizona State Capitol, at which Alexander played a video that Biggs had supplied. In the video, Biggs mentions Brooks as his ally in the fight. Gosar spoke in person at the event.

Hilariously, Biggs denies it even though he is on video admitting it!

Biggs’s connection to Alexander was reported on Sunday by the Arizona Republic, which quoted his spokesperson, Daniel Stefanski, denying any connection to Alexander. “Congressman Biggs is not aware of hearing of or meeting Mr. Alexander at any point — let alone working with him to organize some part of a planned protest,” Stefanski said. “He did not have any contact with protestors or rioters, nor did he ever encourage or foster the rally or protests.”

He has given specific evidence of how the four worked together on this:

Alexander made his

comments in a livestream posted December 28. Jason Paladino, an investigator with the Project on Government Oversight, archived the video from Alexander’s now-suspended account and provided it to The Intercept. “I was the person who came up with the January 6 idea with Congressman Gosar, Congressman Mo Brooks, and then Congressman Andy Biggs. We four schemed up of putting maximum pressure on Congress while they were voting so that who we couldn’t lobby, we could change the hearts and the minds of Republicans who were in that body hearing our loud roar from outside,” Alexander said in the livestream.

I am reasonably certain based on this that Congressman Biggs, at least, is looking at charges. Probably the others as well.

 

[Vol737]

Talk about the Capitol incident all you want. The people that did this should face criminal charges and punishment. But you can’t talk about those people while excusing these people. Hell, Dem politicians all but encouraged it. Oh, let’s not forget the Portland Courthouse, the Seattle Police precinct and remember the Wisconsin State Capitol waaay back in 2010 or so where they had to usher out and protect Republican state reps because of the threats??? Oh yeah, good times. And this s**t has gone on for YEARS by leftist Dems. Remember kids, there’s no standard like what? That’s right, DOUBLE standard. You’re learning.

New video shows rioters smashing windows, destroying vehicles during Inauguration Day protests

 

[USAFgolferVol]

Quit feigning outrage you double standard puke. Your liberal buddies burned down almost every liberal city over the summer and you didn't get raw over that.

"double standard puke". I can't even stop laughing while I'm typing it!

 

[Sin City Vol]

Talk about the Capitol incident all you want. The people that did this should face criminal charges and punishment. But you can’t talk about those people while excusing these people. Hell, Dem politicians all but encouraged it. Oh, let’s not forget the Portland Courthouse, the Seattle Police precinct and remember the Wisconsin State Capitol waaay back in 2010 or so where they had to usher out and protect Republican state reps because of the threats??? Oh yeah, good times. And this s**t has gone on for YEARS by leftist Dems. Remember kids, there’s no standard like what? That’s right, DOUBLE standard. You’re learning.

New video shows rioters smashing windows, destroying vehicles during Inauguration Day protests

 

[volinsd]

What happened to the good ol days of hard working American bad guys who would just get the building plans and map it out. These bad guys now are so lazy they have to get tours from people working in the building so they can conduct their lawlessness.

But this must be true....its coming from a liberal lawyer. Probably more tweets to follow I'm sure.

 

[hog88]

Shiz is getting real.

Freedom Caucus Chair Andy Biggs Helped Plan January 6 Event, Lead Organizer Says






Hilariously, Biggs denies it even though he is on video admitting it!





He has given specific evidence of how the four worked together on this:




I am reasonably certain based on this that Congressman Biggs, at least, is looking at charges. Probably the others as well.

LOL

“I was the person who came up with the January 6 idea with Congressman Gosar, Congressman Mo Brooks, and then Congressman Andy Biggs. We four schemed up of putting maximum pressure on Congress while they were voting so that who we couldn’t lobby, we could change the hearts and the minds of Republicans who were in that body hearing our loud roar from outside,” Alexander said in the livestream.

 

[Vol737]

View attachment 339444

No deflection, Sin. See my second sentence. Good to see u posting again btw.