What Will It Take To Restore This Program?

#26
#26
Holly is on the sec network with all the coaches of all athletic departments talking about how the university is a safe, fair, and equal treatment of women is the best in the country.... Holly even said those words out of her mouth.... So when she gets the boot and tries to file a lawsuit in court the university can play her speech back to her from the press conference and then charge her ass with purgery! Can't have it both ways Holly 🤐🙄
 
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#27
#27
My two cents is Holly does get one more year unless there is a complete player insurrection.There certainly could be transfers but we don't know for sure until those are announced. If there isn't an exodus, she will be back.

I hope to hear an actual admission this season was a disaster given the talent on the roster and some idea on how it can be fixed for next season since there doesn't appear to be any additions. If there isn't some honesty in where the program is, I look for attendance next season to be down significantly and what helped this program a ton over the years is the fans came to games, cheered, donated, and made this one of the top programs in America.

Change the offense to fit the roster rather than insist the roster fit the system, adjust how and what types of players get recruited, and stop trying to substitute with weird patterns with seemingly no discernible rotation.
 
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#28
#28
dusbelli said:
Holly is on the sec network with all the coaches of all athletic departments talking about how the university is a safe, fair, and equal treatment of women is the best in the country.... Holly even said those words out of her mouth.... So when she gets the boot and tries to file a lawsuit in court the university can play her speech back to her from the press conference and then charge her ass with purgery! Can't have it both ways Holly 🤐🙄
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Perjury is only if you lie in a court of law...not on TV. She could reverse herself in court and say it was staged.

I hope some sneaky individual at UT gave her that script and it wasn't self constructed. Because if it was she pretty much just destroyed any near term case against UT for wrongful termination. I almost can't even believe she said that in the manner she did...
 
#29
#29
Holly will DEFINITELY be the coach next season. So, all of these multitude of posts and multitude of threads bashing Holly and naming Your coaching replacements is a Total waste of your time. No sane person would take your coaching recommendations anyway. Your posts on a message board ain't going to get Holly fired, no matter how Vile your posts are.

But, keep it up if you can't control your Kardashian nature.
 
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#30
#30
CAVPUT said:
As I posted elsewhere:

No offense, but in what alternate reality do you see Hart firing Holly in light of all the garbage swirling around UT and women right now? You really believe he's going to pay for Holly's termination, pay top dollar for a new coach AND likely invite another lawsuit on top of what's on his plate right now? And for a program that usually doesn't contribute a lot financially to the budget? You really think a top coach would want to jump into this mess right now? Do you think the LV recruiting won't continue to suffer as a result of these allegations against UT? Get real. Holly is going nowhere in the near future. Certain factions have repeatedly targeted the men's programs especially football. They've wanted to cut the head off the golden goose and fry it up. Well....there's a cost to that. Lady Vol fans better buckle up and learn to live with the consequences.

If the players are guilty of the charges, punish them to the full extent of the law. That's why we have a criminal justice system. What these groups and individuals are trying to do to UT right now is ridiculous and there will be fallout.
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I think you have hit on something subtly here but that everyone has to take into context with the lawsuits, Dave Hart, Jimmy Cheek and the future status of Holly Warlick in that this is the continuation of the ongoing struggle between the merged AD and the Lady Vols AD--specifically the womens basketball program and its affiliated groupies. Holly Warlick is a useful idiot for the merged AD because with any luck she is going to burn down the program which will give them the opportunity to rid it of all the baggage (60 year old female variety) and start over.
 
#31
#31
If you start over it has to be with a coach much like Geno, Staley, etc. who knows the game and how to coach it and demands the best out of everybody in practice and in the games. Geno runs his practices at full speed with coaching and discipline. A coach that the players can't question because of their decisions by their players. And I think that that is what's going on now with this team. To their credit, they haven't gone rogue and decided to just blow HW off while on the floor yet, so they half-ass try to run a stagnant offense and force the ball down low like they are asked and get turnovers.

Stewie is great because of Geno and his system. Tiffany Mitchell and A'ja Wilson are great because of Dawn and her system. Look at the players that have come out of UConn. IMO, I think that DD should have gone there instead of coming here. She is immensely talented and at times you can see some wildness to her game. Under Geno, he would have harnessed that talent into a more controlled and precise machine. Much like Stewie, Maya Moore, Taurasi, etc. DD has not had the opportunity to truly be coached by a strong HC. Hatchell was out in her 1st year and things didn't work out there as a result. For those who would argue that HW is a strong coach, look at this team and look at their effort and body language.

She then sits out a full year and then comes back to a team that has no identity or philosophy. And judging by everybody's body language and lack of enthusiasm at times for each other, it looks like a team that doesn't like each other and the coaching staff doesn't know what to do about it.

The type of coach this teams needs would benefit each and every player because that type of coach would teach them, get in their behinds and show them how to win.
 
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#32
#32
CAVPUT said:
As I posted elsewhere:

No offense, but in what alternate reality do you see Hart firing Holly in light of all the garbage swirling around UT and women right now? You really believe he's going to pay for Holly's termination, pay top dollar for a new coach AND likely invite another lawsuit on top of what's on his plate right now? And for a program that usually doesn't contribute a lot financially to the budget? You really think a top coach would want to jump into this mess right now? Do you think the LV recruiting won't continue to suffer as a result of these allegations against UT? Get real. Holly is going nowhere in the near future. Certain factions have repeatedly targeted the men's programs especially football. They've wanted to cut the head off the golden goose and fry it up. Well....there's a cost to that. Lady Vol fans better buckle up and learn to live with the consequences.

If the players are guilty of the charges, punish them to the full extent of the law. That's why we have a criminal justice system. What these groups and individuals are trying to do to UT right now is ridiculous and there will be fallout.
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True DAT ^^^^
 
#34
#34
Tenacguy50 said:
Absolutely ridiculous. TN can show cause as to why she will/would be let go. Holly Warlick or any assistant would not have a case against UT for the already filed lawsuit. Dave Hart gets paid big bucks to make tough decisions. It's time to make one.
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Riiiight! AD Hart and others in the University admin would never, ever think about PR implications. And firing a women head coach who averaged 28.7 wins in her first 3 seasons (with the additional arguments about the difficulty about following a legend) after one bad season would NEVER be leveraged by those suing and/or condemning the University's "hostile gender climate." And the fact that University is coming off the heels of settlements with Moshak and Jennings (who are all in the same generation as Warlick) and is now under tremendous public scrutiny because of an ongoing lawsuit (involving Peyton Manning no less) would not make them the least bit cautious in making such decisions. Nope, full bore ahead BOYS! Fire Holly.

And Hart who is in the midst of all this controversy would obviously just love to add to the PR heat by firing Warlick after one poor season.

Now if he waits a year, the sexual discrimination heat will have likely dissipated and he could have back-to-back subpar seasons to cite as a clear pattern of the program moving in the wrong direction (plus the additional benefit of being able to say, "we gave Coach Warlick every opportunity in respect to her long service to the University"). No, because you (an anonymous fan posting on a message board) want Holly fired today, Hart will immediately pull the trigger. Anyone who thinks differently is just being ridiculous. I expect the announcement about Warlick's dismissal any minute now.

Waiting, waiting, waiting......
 
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#35
#35
Vols4life said:
Ummm she is currently an assistant coach under coach Pop....one if the best guys in the NBA....she was the head coach of the Spurs Summer league team and lead them to a title...recruiting experience is overrated it's about how you connect, who you know, and how can you make a player better
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Assistant coach under Pop? Yes, but totally at the bottom of the assistant coaching totem pole for Pop.

Spurs Summer League title? Lol. That's not much more than exhibition basketball.

And recruiting is overrated. That deserves another Lol.

Look, I am not disputing another coach is needed, I just think we can do better.
 
#36
#36
Franklin Pierce said:
Holly will DEFINITELY be the coach next season. So, all of these multitude of posts and multitude of threads bashing Holly and naming Your coaching replacements is a Total waste of your time. No sane person would take your coaching recommendations anyway. Your posts on a message board ain't going to get Holly fired, no matter how Vile your posts are.

But, keep it up if you can't control your Kardashian nature.
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Thanks for weighing in, Dave Hart. I guess now since you've stated Warlick will DEFINITELY back we won't have to worry about it any longer. Maybe you should take your own advice and stop wasting time in all of these anti-Holly threads. Don't get me wrong, we all love your brilliant insight and analysis of the Lady Vols and Warlick but somehow I think it'll be ok for you to not post.
 
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#37
#37
this program can absolutely be what it was. bUT only if it isn't allowed to fall so low that it can't readily pick itself up... We lose three players this year : Graves, Moore (And Jones. Medical)... with no recruits to replace them.....This is scary folks.
Coach Jumper
 
#38
#38
madtownvol said:
Well, think about this. You are informed and knowledgeable fan so I think the question is more about the futility of posting over and over again about the need to fire Holly.

You know the situation and why she is very unlikely to be fired after one disappointing season.

Three years of reasonable success on par with what CPS had accomplished in her final years.

Yes, she drew blanks on this year's recruiting class but on paper she has had good success in her prior seasons.

The aura of gender discrimination lawsuits that are floating around the UTAD. [THE BIG ROADBLOCK TO MAKING A COACHING CHANGE]

Here status as CPS's hand picked successor.

Like it or not, she will have a grace year. If next season is a replay in terms of performance and recruiting, there is no chance she stays. The writing will be the wall quickly.

The tricky question is what happens if the LVs have an improved record and finish back in the top 20 but still remain well below elite status.
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should she remain an additional season, then the 2016 & 2017 recruiting classes will be horrible. Along with that Carter, Graves, Jones, Moore & Reynolds will be gone when the new coach arrives. DeShields, Dunbar, Middleton, Nared & Russell will be seniors when the new coach is hired.
before Holly leaves, schools like Western Ky. will be able to beat us by 20 points.
 
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#39
#39
You really think a top coach would want to jump into this mess right now?


My friend, it will be worse next season for any top coach who may consider U.T. Next season, we will have a losing record, with no glimpse of a chance to make it to the NCAA.
 
#40
#40
A realization that a down year and coaching change is not the end of the world for a historically significant program, breathing a little and realizing that long term we will be fine. Think UCLA post John Wooden. They still have a great program year in and year out in the long run.
 
#41
#41
Rudy123 said:
should she remain an additional season, then the 2016 & 2017 recruiting classes will be horrible. Along with that Carter, Graves, Jones, Moore & Reynolds will be gone when the new coach arrives. DeShields, Dunbar, Middleton, Nared & Russell will be seniors when the new coach is hired.
before Holly leaves, schools like Western Ky. will be able to beat us by 20 points.
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The difference here is one between what SHOULD happen and what is likely to happen.

My point is that Hart as, an administrator managing a program that is under fire right now, may look at the situation differently from the fan base who want a coaching change.

I am conjecturing that the competitive status of the LVs basketball program is not Hart's #1 concern. The risk averse strategy--given the other considerations I have noted-- is to wait and see if the worst case scenarios play out next year. If so, a decision to hire a new coach becomes readily justified to all parties, without PR risks.
 
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#42
#42
jwptc said:
Assistant coach under Pop? Yes, but totally at the bottom of the assistant coaching totem pole for Pop.

Spurs Summer League title? Lol. That's not much more than exhibition basketball.

And recruiting is overrated. That deserves another Lol.

Look, I am not disputing another coach is needed, I just think we can do better.
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Summer league NBA are guys trying to make the NBA...exhibition basketball would be something like the all-star game

You don't think the name alone would get recruits to Tennessee?? Becky would kill it! She is self made guarantee she would get Tennessee back to top 5 classes!

Which proven coach is going to want to come into this mess that Holly created with no recruits for 16 and 17??
 
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#43
#43
madtownvol said:
The difference here is one between what SHOULD happen and what is likely to happen.

My point is that Hart as, an administrator managing a program that is under fire right now, may look at the situation differently from the fan base who want a coaching change.

I am conjecturing that the competitive status of the LVs basketball program is not Hart's #1 concern. The risk averse strategy--given the other considerations I have noted-- is to wait and see if the worst case scenarios play out next year. If so, a decision to hire a new coach becomes readily justified to all parties, without PR risks.
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On the other hand Hart does like a fight. If he is in fact going to be leaving soon this could be his closing act of revenge against the Lady Vol groupie seeking his dismissal. Even that is a stretch though because all indications are Holly and Dave have a good relationship contrary to what some might believe. His desire for revenge against that group may not be enough to overcome his like for her.
 
#44
#44
madtownvol said:
Well, think about this. You are informed and knowledgeable fan so I think the question is more about the futility of posting over and over again about the need to fire Holly.

You know the situation and why she is very unlikely to be fired after one disappointing season.

Three years of reasonable success on par with what CPS had accomplished in her final years.

Yes, she drew blanks on this year's recruiting class but on paper she has had good success in her prior seasons.

The aura of gender discrimination lawsuits that are floating around the UTAD. [THE BIG ROADBLOCK TO MAKING A COACHING CHANGE]

Here status as CPS's hand picked successor.

Like it or not, she will have a grace year. If next season is a replay in terms of performance and recruiting, there is no chance she stays. The writing will be the wall quickly.

The tricky question is what happens if the LVs have an improved record and finish back in the top 20 but still remain well below elite status.
Click to expand...

Like many posters I am miserable and frustrated. Sometimes when that happens to true fans, seeing their team going up in flame, they react in many ways. We do not beg anyone to react to our actions, at least I do not.

What Holly gets and what is right, are two separate issues. Shame on UT if they allow Holly to stay because of sexual harassment charges involving a non related issue. Those issues are not remotely related to a female being a bad employee. If the AD or Administration uses that as part of their excuse for no action, that is just an excuse for lack of the will to act. What would Holly's standing be, "You can't fire me for being a bad female coach, because that is sexual harrassment?" She would have to show cause that the act was based on gender only and not her performance. That would be difficult to prove since other coaches, both female and male (of all races) have been fired for performances that were detrimental to the success of a sport team. That could include anything, such as recruiting, or lack there of, poor performance, deterioration of a program, etc. Coaching contracts can be broken simply by showing cause. It does not have to be relegated to a certain point in time. Coaches are fired all the time based upon program decline as long as the documentation is there. It can be based on a one year performance even if the coach has never had a losing record. To be in the clear, UT would have to ante up the remaining money on Holly's extended contract. The ball is in the AD and Administraion's court. Do they do what needs to be done or make excuses?
 
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#45
#45
Holly will get at least one more year off her record alone but next year has to be a final four or she gone.
 
#46
#46
If nobody transfers out, we have 9 players returning next year..... That is pretty thin Time for an overhaul i think
 
#47
#47
ladyvosl23 said:
Holly will get at least one more year off her record alone but next year has to be a final four or she gone.
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Believe me, I fear exactly what you are saying is true. Not in reaction to your post, because I belief that is what will happen. Although, based upon the present situation there will not be a final four. All we are doing is holding off the inevitable, recruiting will be a mess the team will not get better and Holly will be fired. It will then take a very good coach and three good recruiting years to bring this program remotely from the ashes.
 
#50
#50
The Lady Vols will never be the program that it was under Coach Summitt, some might think it can be, but realistically how far away would that be? Even with a new coach, it will take a long time for them to recruit his/her type of players and to instill their system. Will fans be patient or will they start calling for someone else while things are rebuilding? It might take a few coaches before things settle. I see a long, bumpy road ahead for the program.
 
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