What would be your best lineup past present future

[Pacer92]

Only problem (assuming Ruth, Gehrig and Cobb don’t cry seeing a 90 MPH slider) is that defense is spotty. Jeter/Chipper/Williams a big concern

With Ricky, Ruth, Williams and Morgan ranking 2-5 all time in base on balls...the concern would be getting these guys to swing at enough 90 mph sliders..

 

[zjcvols]

Here is my full 28 man team (yes 28 this is my rules)

C Johnny Bench (1972)
1B Albert Pujols (2009)
2B Joe Morgan (1975)
3B Mike Schmidt (1981)
SS Cal Ripken (1991)
LF Rickey Henderson (1985)
CF Willie Mays (1954) I changed years need younger Willie for defense
RF Mickey Mantle (1957)
DH Barry Bonds (2002)

C Yogi Berra (1956)
1B/OF Stan Musial (1948)
IF Alex Rodriguez (2000)
OF Mike Trout (2018)
OF Carl Yastrzemski (1967)

Rotation
Sandy Koufax (1965)
Pedro Martinez (1999)
Randy Johnson (2001)
Bob Gibson (1968)

Bullpen
LH Steve Carlton (1972)
LH Clayton Kershaw (2014)
LH Aroldis Chapman (2016)
LH Billy Wagner (1999)
RH Roger Clemens (1997)
RH Tom Seaver (1971)
RH Nolan Ryan (1973)
RH Jacob deGrom (2018)
RH Craig Kimbrel (2012)
RH Mariano Rivera (2000)

 

[zjcvols]

I'd lead off with Dick Hammerbush. He's the LF for the Havana Hawks in 2054 when he slashes .420/.510/.690 with 63 HRs, 165 RBIs, 137 runs and 90 SB.

Out of all of this, the most ridiculous thing is that MLB would have a team in Havana and name them the Hawks

 

[zjcvols]

Lol

Not a concern at all to me. I’ll take Jeter’s 5 Golden Gloves...Chipper and Ted’s bats over diving catches all day...every day...

Jeter was a subpar defender his whole career.

Chipper and Ted are awesome bats, both no doubt HOF but Chipper’s not even a better hitter than Schmidt and Schmidt was a much better defender. Williams you can work around. Put him in left or DH him. But I’d take Mantle/Mays/and then platoon Yaz/Rickey in Left.

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

From my lifetime...
1. Rickey Henderson RF
2. Ozzie Smith SS
3. Mike Trout LF
4. Ken Griffey Jr. CF
5. Albert Pujols 1B
6. Alex Rodriguez 3B
7. Tony Gwynn DH
8. Roberto Alomar 2B
9. Pudge Rodriguez C

Randy Johnson SP1
Roger Clemens SP2
Justin Verlander SP3
Greg Maddux SP4

Mariano Rivera and Dennis Eckersley in the pen.

*Purposely omitting Bonds. I'm sure Henderson, Arod, and Alomar are asses, but I've met Bonds and confirmed he's an ass.

 

[zjcvols]

Why the hell would you want Ozzie Smith when you can have 95% of the defense and twice the bat with Cal Ripken

 

[zjcvols]

Ozzie Smith highest WAR in a season: 6.7

Ripken SEASONS of 6.7 WAR: 4

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

LOL. 2 gold gloves is not 95% of 13 gold gloves.

 

[Pacer92]

Jeter was a subpar defender his whole career.

Chipper and Ted are awesome bats, both no doubt HOF but Chipper’s not even a better hitter than Schmidt and Schmidt was a much better defender. Williams you can work around. Put him in left or DH him. But I’d take Mantle/Mays/and then platoon Yaz/Rickey in Left.

Jeter’s 5 GG say different. He was no Luis Aparicio, but there was nothing subpar about Derek Jeter’s game..

Schmidt had more pop, but a career .267 hitter isn’t a better hitter than a career .303 hitter...that’s laughable....and Chipper hit from both sides which would give him a significant edge in most lineups. Defense edge Schmidt...I will cede to you..

 

[zjcvols]

Jeter’s 5 GG say different. He was no Luis Aparicio, but there was nothing subpar about Derek Jeter’s game..

Schmidt had more pop, but a career .267 hitter isn’t a better hitter than a career .303 hitter...that’s laughable....and Chipper hit from both sides which would give him a significant edge in most lineups. Defense edge Schmidt...I will cede to you..

Every defensive metric has Jeter as subpar. Gold Gloves are almost worthless. Raffy Palmiero once won a GG despite playing more games at DH than first in 1999.

Batting average isn’t a good way to evaluate offense. It’s very close, but Schmidt has a career higher OPS+ and wRC+ and also had a better ten year run than Chipper in both categories. The switch hitting capability Chipper brings does make it very close

However with Schmidt being a top 3 defender at third of all time and Chipper being at best average, give me Schmidt.

 

[zjcvols]

Ripken dWAR at SS: 34.7
Smith dWAR at SS: 44.2

Ripken FG defensive value: 306.3
Smith FG defensive value: 375.3

So even if Ripken was 80% of the fielder Smith is by those two metrics, I still get a much, much better offensive performer. Plus in 2021 I can shift and negate some of Smith’s defensive value by using strategy and zones to determine best to play my defenders. Add also an elite strikeout pitching staff and the extra infield defense Smith provides doesn’t negate his below average offense compared to Ripken’s fantastic offense.

 

[TBrown]

Ozzie Smith shouldn’t be in the conversation for which SS you would want even if you narrowed it to the 80’s

The guy was pathetic offensively

 

[Orange defense]

David Freeze?

Well, yea, I mean he was a good batter. He helped win the World Series.

 

[Orange defense]

I was kidding earlier but now I see that you’ve actually got Tom Friggin Herr in your lineup... but no Stan Musial. I’m calling the Cardinals front office to get your fan card revoked.

Awwww man! I forgot about him. Geeezzze! It’s harder than I thought.

 

[85SugarVol]

Only problem (assuming Ruth, Gehrig and Cobb don’t cry seeing a 90 MPH slider) is that defense is spotty. Jeter/Chipper/Williams a big concern

If Ruth, Gehrig, & Cobb could hit Walter Johnson’s smoke... they could hit in today’s game too.

Schmidt over Chipper for defense alone.
Jeter won 5 Gold Gloves in his prime. But I might slot Ripken in there.

 

[zjcvols]

If Ruth, Gehrig, & Cobb could hit Walter Johnson’s smoke... they could hit in today’s game too.

Schmidt over Chipper for defense alone.
Jeter won 5 Gold Gloves in his prime. But I might slot Ripken in there.

“Smoke” Walter Johnson wasnt throwing 96-98 consistently. Hell he “might” have been hitting 90

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

LOL. Damn. Next time I'll Google highest war by position before I post so nobody gets triggered.

 

[Pacer92]

Every defensive metric has Jeter as subpar. Gold Gloves are almost worthless. Raffy Palmiero once won a GG despite playing more games at DH than first in 1999.

Batting average isn’t a good way to evaluate offense. It’s very close, but Schmidt has a career higher OPS+ and wRC+ and also had a better ten year run than Chipper in both categories. The switch hitting capability Chipper brings does make it very close

However with Schmidt being a top 3 defender at third of all time and Chipper being at best average, give me Schmidt.

I'll take Jeter and his .976 fielding percentage all day....every day.

And Schmidt's .955 career FP over Chipper's .954 is splitting hairs...

 

[zjcvols]

Ozzie Smith shouldn’t be in the conversation for which SS you would want even if you narrowed it to the 80’s

The guy was pathetic offensively

Wouldn’t even have Ozzie as a top 7-8 choice for SS post segregation for this particular exercise. Ripken, Trammell, ARod, Jeter, peak Tulo, peak Nomar, Larkin, Yount

 

[zjcvols]

I'll take Jeter and his .976 fielding percentage all day....every day.

And Schmidt's .955 career FP over Chipper's .954 is splitting hairs...

Fielding Percentage??????? It’s 2021 and people are trying to use fielding percentage???

 

[zjcvols]

Wouldn’t even have Ozzie as a top 7-8 choice for SS post segregation for this particular exercise. Ripken, Trammell, ARod, Jeter, peak Tulo, peak Nomar, Larkin, Yount

Hell forgot Ernie Banks too

 

[Pacer92]

Fielding Percentage??????? It’s 2021 and people are trying to use fielding percentage???

View attachment 370215

It's all I need to know to compare two players defensively.....chances, errors........its all you need.

 

[05_never_again]

Ozzie Smith shouldn’t be in the conversation for which SS you would want even if you narrowed it to the 80’s

The guy was pathetic offensively

Ozzie Smith is one of the most overrated baseball players of all time. I know his defense was awesome, and he played in an era when that meant more, but his offense was really bad as you say.

He had to be as good of a defender as he was, and he was an incredible defender, in order to even stay in the league as long as he did.

 

[zjcvols]

It's all I need to know to compare two players defensively.....chances, errors........its all you need.

Fielding percentage is completely subjective. It’s based on one man’s opinion on what an error should or shouldn’t be. It’s a useless tool.

If you’re not gonna use defensive metrics I’d suggest just overall putouts and assists

 

[zjcvols]

Okay so here is Ozzie Smith from 1982-1991...and Ripken from 1983-1992 (Ripken played half his games at 3B in 1982 so I pushed it back a year. I figured I’d use the same time frame they played (I know young Ozzie was amazing on defense but he also was horrible on offense before 1982, 66 wRC+).

Ozzie Smith
Putouts: 2,453
Assists: 4,776
Games: 1474
Average outs per game: 4.9

Cal Ripken
Putouts: 2691
Assists: 4972
Games: 1616

So outs per game: 4.74

So Ozzie was with an .16 of an out per game...or Ozzie was worth 1.6 outs every 10 games over Cal.

Now offensively

1982-1991 Smith: 95 OPS+
1983-1992 Ripken: 125 OPS+

So...Ripken is 30% better offensively than Smith...but Ozzie is only worth an extra out every 1.6 outs every ten games...the defense rests.