White supremacist mows down mosque in NZ

[zeppelin128]

I'd never heard of it but it's a thing apparently. Weird mix of ideologies (worker's rights, environmentalism, anti-imperialism, racial purity, fair markets?, and some others I don't remember) some eugenics thrown in for good measure.

What a mess. It is like a Marxist, radical environmentalist, libertarian, and an old school German Nazi got drunk together in a bar and started writing everything down on the back of a napkin.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

The bolded statements are complete BS.

Golden Rule in Islam | islam.ru

The golden rule, or the ethics of reciprocity, is an Islamic moral principle which calls upon people to treat others the way they would like to be treated. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, the golden rule is defined as:
Any form of the dictum: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. In some form this is found in almost all religions and ethical systems. [Blackburn, Simon. "Golden Rule."]
This principle was stated several times by our Prophet Muhammad, so it is a principle Muslims should discuss when sharing Islam with people of other religions.
“It is better to interpret this as brotherhood in general, such that it includes the disbeliever and the Muslim. So he should love for his brother, the disbeliever, what he loves for himself which is his entering Islam, just as he should love for his brother Muslim that he remains in Islam.

As usual Loother, you are DEAD WRONG..

The Quran never, at any point, tells them to embrace non muslims as brothers. Ever. Not 1 sura, or verse in English. Never.

It tells them to lie *like above* kill, rape, pillage, kill, lie, kill. Thats what they are to do to infidels. I have read the entire book

You have not..and its obvious.

Just like always, you who know nothing try to enlighten those who do know.

Youre a freaking idiot..and its annoying.

STFU about both Christian doctrine and Islam...you know absolutely nothing about either. Youre the worst kind of poster...a spreader of misinformation and outright lies.

Keep your ignorance to yourself

 

[luthervol]

As usual Loother, you are DEAD WRONG..

The Quran never, at any point, tells them to embrace non muslims as brothers. Ever. Not 1 sura, or verse in English. Never.

It tells them to lie *like above* kill, rape, pillage, kill, lie, kill. Thats what they are to do to infidels. I have read the entire book

You have not..and its obvious.

Just like always, you who know nothing try to enlighten those who do know.

Youre a freaking idiot..and its annoying.

STFU about both Christian doctrine and Islam...you know absolutely nothing about either. Youre the worst kind of poster...a spreader of misinformation and outright lies.


Keep your ignorance to yourself

Haters going to hate.
You are a shining example of all that is wrong in this world.
www.alislam.org/library/articles/why-does-the-quran-say-that-infidels-should-be-killed/

The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammad(sa) began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammad(sa) and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.

You prove why a little bit of knowledge in a mind incapable of thought can be such a dangerous weapon.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

As usual Loother, you are DEAD WRONG..

The Quran never, at any point, tells them to embrace non muslims as brothers. Ever. Not 1 sura, or verse in English. Never.

It tells them to lie *like above* kill, rape, pillage, kill, lie, kill. Thats what they are to do to infidels. I have read the entire book

You have not..and its obvious.

Just like always, you who know nothing try to enlighten those who do know.

Youre a freaking idiot..and its annoying.

STFU about both Christian doctrine and Islam...you know absolutely nothing about either. Youre the worst kind of poster...a spreader of misinformation and outright lies.

Keep your ignorance to yourself

Why does the Quran say that infidels should be killed?
The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammad(sa) began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammad(sa) and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.
Looking at the context of the verses, it becomes obvious that the commandment of this verse only relates to those tribes who continued hostilities against the Muslims even after they had migrated. In particular, reference is made to 5 tribes (‘Banu Khuza’ah, Banu Mudlij, Banu Bakr, Banu Damrah, and Banu Sulaiim) that did not honor the treaties they made with Muslims. It is also important to remember that the preceding verses give these people respite for 4 months to reconsider their behavior and cease hostilities. Sadly after 4 months passed, the enemies of Islam continued their hostilities against the Muslims. Only then was Prophet Muhammad(sa) commanded by God to meet them in battle to defend Muslims and the religion of Islam.
Even in this situation the Quran states that if the enemies repent of their behavior and promise to fulfill their treaties, it becomes incumbent on Muslims to cease military action and forgive them. Unfortunately those who take this specific verse out of context fail to see that as the title Al-Taubah suggests, the main subject matter of the chapter is forgiveness and repentance.

 

[RockyTop85]

You're conflating two arguments. The tenants of Christianity as written in a central book are contradictory. The tenants of Islam as written in a central book are not contradictory.

The bold you bring up is an interesting problem, much of which can be explained by rules and governance of the organizations of the different Christian denominations. For instance, Catholic priests are required by the rules of their organization to be celibate and unmarried. Of all adults who are celibate and unmarried, it is possible that a higher distribution of pedophiles fall within that group than within the general population. While I agree, it is a problem, I don't think you can point a finger at the articles of Christian faith as the causal link the way you can with an Islamic person suicide bombing an infidel. It is written in their rule book to do so, and it is never contradicted by their version of a Jesus figure.

Your comments on Islam are no different than cherry picking seemingly ridiculous Bible verses to make whatever point. You can find a justification for a great many things that Christians don’t practice.

Scripture is subject to interpretation and a sizable majority of Muslims do not interpret the Quran to include a call to a militant Jihad.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Does the Koran really say “Kill the infidels wherever you find them”?

Excerpt from Chapter 17: Jihad



Right-wing Web sites devoted to showing the “truth about Islam” array searing verses that seem to show the Koran offering a nearly unlimited license to kill. (A few years after 9/11, a list of “the Koran’s 111 Jihad verses” was posted on the conservative Web site freerepublic.com.) But the closer you look at the context of these verses, the more limited the license seems.

The passage most often quoted is the fifth verse of the ninth sura, long known to Muslims as the “Sword verse.” It was cited by Osama bin Laden in a famous manifesto issued in 1996, and on first reading it does seem to say that bin Laden would be justified in hunting down any non-Muslim on the planet. The verse is often translated colloquially—particularly on these right-wing Web sites—as “kill the infidels wherever you find them.”

This common translation is wrong. The verse doesn’t actually mention “infidels” but rather refers to “those who join other gods with God”—which is to say, polytheists. So, bin Laden notwithstanding, the “Sword verse” isn’t the strongest imaginable basis for attacking Christians and Jews.

Still, even if the Sword verse wasn’t aimed at Christians and Jews, it is undeniably bloody: “And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush.” It seems that a polytheist’s only escape from this fate is to convert to Islam, “observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms.”

But the next verse, rarely quoted by either jihadists or right-wing Web sites, suggests that conversion isn’t actually necessary: “If any one of those who join gods with God ask an asylum of thee, grant him an asylum, that he may hear the Word of God, and then let him reach his place of safety.” After all, polytheists are “people devoid of knowledge.”

And the following verse suggests that whole tribes of polytheists can be spared if they’re not a military threat. If those “who add gods to God” made “a league [with the Muslims] at the sacred temple,” then “so long as they are true to you, be ye true to them; for God loveth those who fear Him.” For that matter, the verse immediately before the Sword verse also takes some of the edge off it, exempting from attack “those polytheists with whom ye are in league, and who shall have afterwards in no way failed you, nor aided anyone against you.”

In short, “kill the polytheists wherever you find them” doesn’t mean “kill the polytheists wherever you find them.” It means “kill the polytheists who aren’t on your side in this particular war.”…

 

[evillawyer]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...m=.506eb4d80d69#click=https://t.co/Wvprd5npIc

 

[zeppelin128]

Why does the Quran say that infidels should be killed?
The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammad(sa) began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammad(sa) and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.
Looking at the context of the verses, it becomes obvious that the commandment of this verse only relates to those tribes who continued hostilities against the Muslims even after they had migrated. In particular, reference is made to 5 tribes (‘Banu Khuza’ah, Banu Mudlij, Banu Bakr, Banu Damrah, and Banu Sulaiim) that did not honor the treaties they made with Muslims. It is also important to remember that the preceding verses give these people respite for 4 months to reconsider their behavior and cease hostilities. Sadly after 4 months passed, the enemies of Islam continued their hostilities against the Muslims. Only then was Prophet Muhammad(sa) commanded by God to meet them in battle to defend Muslims and the religion of Islam.
Even in this situation the Quran states that if the enemies repent of their behavior and promise to fulfill their treaties, it becomes incumbent on Muslims to cease military action and forgive them. Unfortunately those who take this specific verse out of context fail to see that as the title Al-Taubah suggests, the main subject matter of the chapter is forgiveness and repentance.

It seems the majority opinion on the board is that Christianity is open to interpretation, whereas Islam is literal and not open to any historical context or interpretation.

 

[SamRebel35]

Your comments on Islam are no different than cherry picking seemingly ridiculous Bible verses to make whatever point. You can find a justification for a great many things that Christians don’t practice.

Scripture is subject to interpretation and a sizable majority of Muslims do not interpret the Quran to include a call to a militant Jihad.

You're missing the entire point. Cherry pick all the horrible things you want from the Bible. They will be contradicted at some point in that same book. Cherry pick any horrible thing you want from the Koran. It will not be contradicted. That's the problem.

 

[volinbham]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...m=.506eb4d80d69#click=https://t.co/Wvprd5npIc

Never let a crisis go to waste eh?

 

[SamRebel35]

It seems the majority opinion on the board is that Christianity is open to interpretation, whereas Islam is literal and not open to any historical context or interpretation.

Maybe that's what some say. I'm not saying that. Koran doesn't contradict itself. If chosen to interpret it literally, you get something that looks like ISIS. The Bible is rife with contradictions. If interpreted literally, the reader's brain will explode because you can't reconcile the contradictions.

 

[37L1]

So, when are all these Christian stonings taking place?

 

[T-TownVol]

The bolded statements are complete BS.

Golden Rule in Islam | islam.ru

The golden rule, or the ethics of reciprocity, is an Islamic moral principle which calls upon people to treat others the way they would like to be treated. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, the golden rule is defined as:
Any form of the dictum: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. In some form this is found in almost all religions and ethical systems. [Blackburn, Simon. "Golden Rule."]
This principle was stated several times by our Prophet Muhammad, so it is a principle Muslims should discuss when sharing Islam with people of other religions.
“It is better to interpret this as brotherhood in general, such that it includes the disbeliever and the Muslim. So he should love for his brother, the disbeliever, what he loves for himself which is his entering Islam, just as he should love for his brother Muslim that he remains in Islam.

You are completely ignorant.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Actually i already saw something saying he supported Trump in his manifesto...POS doesnt get to dirty trumps name by killing folks though. He soecifically points out some woman as his biggest influence, i didnt recognize her name. I have no love for muslims because they either wish to kill the infidel, they are lying about that, or they are insincere muslims that apparently dont acknowledge the commands in the suras of their own holy book. The insincere ones arent dangerous, but i never see them denounce the radicals of their faith, either.

That said, what this sicko did was murder, and he is a terrorist. Nothing i have seen claims he is a Christian, of which i am glad. There are plenty of garbage examples of supposed Christians like the westboro clan that give my faith a bad look as well. I Am surprised the guy didnt kill himself honestly. He is a murderer. I have no problem with killing muslim extremists in military or police operations, or Christian or atheist terrorists for that matter...but this guy just murdered seemingly innocent women and men, maybe kids too...who knows. Terrible tragedy.

Candace Owens.....oh noes, a conservative, black, educated, female.

 

[n_huffhines]

Your comments on Islam are no different than cherry picking seemingly ridiculous Bible verses to make whatever point. You can find a justification for a great many things that Christians don’t practice.

Scripture is subject to interpretation and a sizable majority of Muslims do not interpret the Quran to include a call to a militant Jihad.

But it's more fun to cherry pick and point fingers

 

[n_huffhines]

Maybe that's what some say. I'm not saying that. Koran doesn't contradict itself. If chosen to interpret it literally, you get something that looks like ISIS. The Bible is rife with contradictions. If interpreted literally, the reader's brain will explode because you can't reconcile the contradictions.

All you have to do is google it and you'll find this isn't true.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Does the Koran really say “Kill the infidels wherever you find them”?

Excerpt from Chapter 17: Jihad



Right-wing Web sites devoted to showing the “truth about Islam” array searing verses that seem to show the Koran offering a nearly unlimited license to kill. (A few years after 9/11, a list of “the Koran’s 111 Jihad verses” was posted on the conservative Web site freerepublic.com.) But the closer you look at the context of these verses, the more limited the license seems.

The passage most often quoted is the fifth verse of the ninth sura, long known to Muslims as the “Sword verse.” It was cited by Osama bin Laden in a famous manifesto issued in 1996, and on first reading it does seem to say that bin Laden would be justified in hunting down any non-Muslim on the planet. The verse is often translated colloquially—particularly on these right-wing Web sites—as “kill the infidels wherever you find them.”

This common translation is wrong. The verse doesn’t actually mention “infidels” but rather refers to “those who join other gods with God”—which is to say, polytheists. So, bin Laden notwithstanding, the “Sword verse” isn’t the strongest imaginable basis for attacking Christians and Jews.

Still, even if the Sword verse wasn’t aimed at Christians and Jews, it is undeniably bloody: “And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush.” It seems that a polytheist’s only escape from this fate is to convert to Islam, “observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms.”

But the next verse, rarely quoted by either jihadists or right-wing Web sites, suggests that conversion isn’t actually necessary: “If any one of those who join gods with God ask an asylum of thee, grant him an asylum, that he may hear the Word of God, and then let him reach his place of safety.” After all, polytheists are “people devoid of knowledge.”

And the following verse suggests that whole tribes of polytheists can be spared if they’re not a military threat. If those “who add gods to God” made “a league [with the Muslims] at the sacred temple,” then “so long as they are true to you, be ye true to them; for God loveth those who fear Him.” For that matter, the verse immediately before the Sword verse also takes some of the edge off it, exempting from attack “those polytheists with whom ye are in league, and who shall have afterwards in no way failed you, nor aided anyone against you.”

In short, “kill the polytheists wherever you find them” doesn’t mean “kill the polytheists wherever you find them.” It means “kill the polytheists who aren’t on your side in this particular war.”…

Bullsh*t. Those who add gods to God refers to Christians and Jews and "their version of God" vs. Allah. You can believe what you want. If OBL was quoting the koran as permission to jihad then any muslim is free to understand it that way.

Oh wait Osama, you aren't understanding your koran correctly. Hear let me (as a westerner) tell you what it actually is supposed to mean.

CWV, you are a simpleton at times.

 

[luthervol]

All you have to do is google it and you'll find this isn't true.

I have a feeling Sam's mind is made up and locked tight.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Bullsh*t. Those who add gods to God refers to Christians and Jews and "their version of God" vs. Allah. You can believe what you want. If OBL was quoting the koran as permission to jihad then any muslim is free to understand it that way.

Oh wait Osama, you aren't understanding your koran correctly. Hear let me (as a westerner) tell you what it actually is supposed to mean.

CWV, you are a simpleton at times.

I quoted a devout muslim and Islamic scholar. Not my words. Careful who you call a simpleton.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I quoted a devout muslim and Islamic scholar. Not my words. Careful who you call a simpleton.

And OBL wasn't? Their are so few polytheists in the world today that the muslims should leave everyone alone. Explain their propensity for blowing sh*t up because American and Jews and Zionist.....

 

[luthervol]

I quoted a devout muslim and Islamic scholar. Not my words. Careful who you call a simpleton.

82 is very invested in his hatred.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

And OBL wasn't? Their are so few polytheists in the world today that the muslims should leave everyone alone. Explain their propensity for blowing sh*t up because American and Jews and Zionist.....

The Westboro Baptist asserts all kinds of biblical verses to justify their hate. Most Christians say they are misguided. Why the different standard for Muslims?

 

[zeppelin128]

Maybe that's what some say. I'm not saying that. Koran doesn't contradict itself. If chosen to interpret it literally, you get something that looks like ISIS. The Bible is rife with contradictions. If interpreted literally, the reader's brain will explode because you can't reconcile the contradictions.

To be fair, some Christians interpret the Bible literally all the time. They just ignore the contradictions or perform some impressive mental gymnastics. All organized religions have these types.

 

[37L1]

The Westboro Baptist asserts all kinds of biblical verses to justify their hate. Most Christians say they are misguided. Why the different standard for Muslims?

How many people have the Westboro Baptists beheaded? Don't agree one bit with them but have they been violent or just obnoxious douche canoes?

 

[VolStrom]

I'll summarize this post for the deaf and hearing impaired. Blah ba blah ba blah blah blah.
Racist racist racist.