White supremacist mows down mosque in NZ

#477
#477
DinkinFlicka said:
CNN is way off the reservation this half of the decade but Anderson Cooper's monologue on this tragedy was pretty spot on; albeit depressing.
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You wouldn't happen to have a link would you? CNN's website isn't showing his discussion from tonight yet.
Edit: Nevermind, found it.
 
#478
#478
zeppelin128 said:
This particular situation is the outcome of a larger problem that has been documented in research. White nationalism and hate groups in general are on the increase. There will be much more of these types of attacks over the next few years.

Hate groups also include black nationalists, which have seen an increase in the last few years, as well as fundamentalist Muslims, Jews, and Christians. Just thought I'd mention that before I get labeled as a white hating commie.
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Just a theory, but I think the rise in white nationalism is due in part to concepts like white privilege and white guilt being pushed in society. There's a message being pushed that white people should feel shame. And no, I'm not justifying it, just offering a probable cause. Other races and ethnicities are encouraged to be proud of their heritage. White people, not so much.

Bigotry in any form is wrong and should be condemned.
 
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#479
#479
DinkinFlicka said:
CNN is way off the reservation this half of the decade but Anderson Cooper's monologue on this tragedy was pretty spot on; albeit depressing.
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Anderson is usually solid, but damn he nailed all of this as succinctly and honestly as I've heard. That should be required listening for everyone.
 
#480
#480
Weezer said:
Just a theory, but I think the rise in white nationalism is due in part to concepts like white privilege and white guilt being pushed in society. There's a message being pushed that white people should feel shame. And no, I'm not justifying it, just offering a probable cause. Other races and ethnicities are encouraged to be proud of their heritage. White people, not so much.

Bigotry in any form is wrong and should be condemned.
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Blowback to more diversity in government and society? Maybe, white-lash to President Obama resulted in Trump's election. I don't think recognizing the obvious privilege that whites have had in the US for a few centuries has had any effect on the rise of white nationalism. It wasn't like we as white folks weren't aware of the advantages. I think it is the realization that equality is starting to approach reality that is freaking some people out. It has nothing to do with guilt or shame.

Bigotry is wrong, indeed.
 
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#481
#481
RockyTop85 said:
🤦🏻‍♂️

This is semantics. Call it whatever you want. The **** you’re saying, the **** you’re agreeing with, it puts you on the same ideological foundation as violent mass murderers. More than just this one.

Meanwhile, you’re operating from a world view that homogenizes entire groups of people with similar fundamental ideology, and assumes they’re all as bad as their worst members.

Turn that around and apply it to your own groups. Why should you not be the one who is marginalized/incarcerated/expelled for the good and protection of the rest of us?

The easy answer, that not one of you has come up with, is because you’re not like those people, even if you share similar fundamental views, you wouldn’t go that far. I hope that’s actually the case. I have no idea. But I assume it is because every person of a specific faith/belief is not the same as every other person who shares that belief. Your own distinction from these people ought to make you understand that. The distinction of the Muslims you know ought to make you understand that.

If we all adopt this same ignorant world view that everybody who shares a particular label is just as dangerous/evil as the worst person who we feel shares that label then we all need to be afraid of each other and nobody deserves to be free.

It’s really not that complicated.

Also, your “simple question” asks me to explain myself for something that you assume I’m guilty of because you assume I’m the same as all the other people you’ve given a particular label. All of those assumptions are ignorant and fundamentally the same as what I’m criticizing you for. So no, I’m not going to validate that with an answer.
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Of course you won't answer, you're a hypocrite. You only want to blame one group because it fits your political agenda, and you ignore muslin doing the same thing this guy did, but they have a story every day. Hypocritical.
 
#482
#482
zeppelin128 said:
I'm not trying to speak for Rocky, but the white thing was going to come up in this case because the dude is a self-avowed white nationalist. And an eco-fascist, which I learned today was a thing apparently, thanks to volinbham.
I think some are equating posting in an active thread with "liberals hate us, white people bad." Weezer said something earlier about an attack on a Catholic Church in the Philippines that I had no clue about. Like he said, nobody started a thread on that, and that includes you fellas on the right. So don't put it on us.
People are posting, including myself, because this is an unusual event for New Zealand.
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I don't start any of these threads, I only pointed out in the beginning that the other liberals in here only, and only ever, post when it's a white guy, and never condemn any other tragedy. Of course there are stupid white people who want to kill anyone else, but also blacks, Muslim, etc. I just get tired of the hypocrisy from them about how tragic this is because it's a white guy, and they tuck their little tails and disappear when it's not a white person.
 
#483
#483
zeppelin128 said:
Blowback to more diversity in government and society? Maybe, white-lash to President Obama resulted in Trump's election. I don't think recognizing the obvious privilege that whites have had in the US for a few centuries has had any effect on the rise of white nationalism. It wasn't like we as white folks weren't aware of the advantages. I think it is the realization that equality is starting to approach reality that is freaking some people out. It has nothing to do with guilt or shame.

Bigotry is wrong, indeed.
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Other than your last sentence, I disagree with almost everything you said. The past is the past and no one is guilty of their grandfather's sins. I'm not sure what advantages you've had in life, but I've never received any advantage for being white. Honestly, I think you're regurgitating liberal BS. There is a clear message being sent that white people should feel shame for a past that we weren't a part of. Judge me for who I am, not for who my ancestors may or may not have been.
 
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#484
#484
joevol33 said:
I don't start any of these threads, I only pointed out in the beginning that the other liberals in here only, and only ever, post when it's a white guy, and never condemn any other tragedy. Of course there are stupid white people who want to kill anyone else, but also blacks, Muslim, etc. I just get tired of the hypocrisy from them about how tragic this is because it's a white guy, and they tuck their little tails and disappear when it's not a white person.
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I don't think that is the case at all. I've seen plenty of my dirty brethren posting in other terrorist threads not involving a white terrorist.
 
#486
#486
zeppelin128 said:
Blowback to more diversity in government and society? Maybe, white-lash to President Obama resulted in Trump's election. I don't think recognizing the obvious privilege that whites have had in the US for a few centuries has had any effect on the rise of white nationalism. It wasn't like we as white folks weren't aware of the advantages. I think it is the realization that equality is starting to approach reality that is freaking some people out. It has nothing to do with guilt or shame.

Bigotry is wrong, indeed.
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Don’t think it was white-lash from Obama that got Trump elected, or else Obama would have never won a 2nd term. Probably woulda beat Trump too imo
 
#487
#487
Weezer said:
Other than your last sentence, I disagree with almost everything you said. The past is the past and no one is guilty of their grandfather's sins. I'm not sure what advantages you've had in life, but I've never received any advantage for being white. Honestly, I think you're regurgitating liberal BS. There is a clear message being sent that white people should feel shame for a past that we weren't a part of. Judge me for who I am, not for who my ancestors may or may not have been.
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No one is holding you responsible for your grandfather's sins. No one is telling you or me to feel shame for our ancestors. You've received plenty of advantages from being white. We are much less likely to be murdered by the militarized police force than POC. That is an advantage, no? We are much less likely to be stopped to begin with, which is an advantage, no? We can go on, but we have an advantage. It is what it is, we can't do anything about it but call it out.
 
#489
#489
Smokey123 said:
Don’t think it was white-lash from Obama that got Trump elected, or else Obama would have never won a 2nd term. Probably woulda beat Trump too imo
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There wasn't a candidate in 2012 actively fomenting racial hatred against President Obama. Trump would take that path. He has absolutely no shame.
 
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#492
#492
zeppelin128 said:
No one is holding you responsible for your grandfather's sins. No one is telling you or me to feel shame for our ancestors. You've received plenty of advantages from being white. We are much less likely to be murdered by the militarized police force than POC. That is an advantage, no? We are much less likely to be stopped to begin with, which is an advantage, no? We can go on, but we have an advantage. It is what it is, we can't do anything about it but call it out.
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Not buying it. When cops kill a black man, it's news and it's racism. When cops kill a white man, it must have been justified. It is what it is and I'm calling it out. Affirmative action, racial quotas, racial specific scholarships and charities, all things that once served a genuine purpose seem more and more like privileges in today's world. Imagine the uproar if someone created a United Caucasian College Fund? Where is the actual equality we're supposed to be seeking? Honestly, it doesn't seem like equality is the goal. Despite the message of the left, racism isn't around every corner, nor is it the driving force behind every interaction between POC and the police. If you want to subject yourself to white guilt, that's fine. Just don't project it onto everyone else. I don't carry around hate in my heart, and I don't make presumptions of people based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or any other such designations.
 
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#494
#494
Smokey123 said:
Romney won 59% of the white vote compared to Trumps 58%
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Okay, still doesn't change how it would play out. Find the lowest of the low, and Trump will be down there some where. He would get absolutely destroyed running against President Obama anyway, so this is a moot point and not worth discussion.
 
#495
#495
zeppelin128 said:
He's right though. Trump has a huge part in it.
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Bull ****. You guys need to stop blaming Trump for everything. He's not responsible for a lunatic in New Zealand. Trump may be an *******, but he's not the freakin' anti-Christ. He's not responsible for all the evil in the world.
 
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#496
#496
Weezer said:
Not buying it. When cops kill a black man, it's news and it's racism. When cops kill a white man, it must have been justified. It is what it is and I'm calling it out. Affirmative action, racial quotas, racial specific scholarships and charities, all things that once served a genuine purpose seem more and more like privileges in today's world. Imagine the uproar if someone created a United Caucasian College Fund? Where is the actual equality we're supposed to be seeking? Honestly, it doesn't seem like equality is the goal. Despite the message of the left, racism isn't around every corner, nor is it the driving force behind every interaction between POC and the police. If you want to subject yourself to white guilt, that's fine. Just don't project it onto everyone else. I don't carry around hate in my heart, and I don't make presumptions of people based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or any other such designations.
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That is bs, there has been plenty of outrage when the militarized police force decides to murder a white dude. Many from this board have commented on it, including me. Yes, imagine the uproar when there is a special scholarship fund for white folks when we receive 70% of scholarship funding already. No need for anything to try to close that gap. Regardless of what you think, racism and hatred is actually around every corner. It has absolutely nothing to do with white guilt.
 
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#497
#497
zeppelin128 said:
That is bs, there has been plenty of outrage when the militarized police force decides to murder a white dude. Many from this board have commented on it, including me. Yes, imagine the uproar when there is a special scholarship fund for white folks when we receive 70% of scholarship funding already. No need for anything to try to close that gap. Regardless of what you think, racism and hatred is actually around every corner. It has absolutely nothing to do with white guilt.
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If you believe that, you must live in a very bleak world.
 
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#498
#498
zeppelin128 said:
Okay, still doesn't change how it would play out. Find the lowest of the low, and Trump will be down there some where. He would get absolutely destroyed running against President Obama anyway, so this is a moot point and not worth discussion.
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You’re the one that said White-lash from Obama got Trump elected. White-lash got us Trump, but the man who is inspiring white nationalists all across the world, would get destroyed by Obama. Makes perfect sense I guess

You may need to go back and read the first two quotes from this specific convo
 
#500
#500
Weezer said:
Bull ****. You guys need to stop blaming Trump for everything. He's not responsible for a lunatic in New Zealand. Trump may be an *******, but he's not the freakin' anti-Christ. He's not responsible for all the evil in the world.
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He sure as hell has a hand in the rise of white extremism, white supremacy, neo-Nazism, and proto-Fascism worldwide. Bitch at him about it when he opens his mouth and strategically decides to keep it shut.
 
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