Who does Dave Hart ...

#27
#27
therealUT said:
No, you do not have to give him that opportunity.
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So you suggest exercising another buyout clause during Season 1 to get a new coach? Which coach do you think we have the best shot of getting? The one who wants to follow the Bruce debacle and the young, new and well respected coach who was given an 8-game tenure before being fired for losing to one crappy team?

I'll be willing to listen to your argument after reading your answers.
 
#28
#28
therealUT said:
What did Martin do that leads you to believe he was all that successful at MS? He took over a team that had perennially won around twenty games and missed the tournament and, after his initial season where they only won 11 games, he won over twenty games and missed the tournament.

Dooley should have never been hired at UT.

I do not see why coaches that should have never been hired at UT should be given opportunities to prove what everyone already knows. If Hart wants to take the AD in the right direction at UT, then he should be searching for proven football and basketball coaches. If, like Hamilton, he wants to find "needles in haystacks" then he can very well consign his fate to that of Hamilton's.
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I agree with you on Dooley, but if College BBall wasn't messed up and allowed teams that win their Conf Reg Season to get auto bids to the tourney, then Cuonzo would've had a couple Mo State teams in the tourney.
I wasn't exactly excited when I heard Martin was our newest hire, but after seeing the team play in Maui and watching a couple past Mo State games, I really feel he can turn this team around...
Also, you're clearly not an idiot about Vols BBall so I retract that insult from earlier haha. I just happen to disagree w/ you bout Cuonzo.
 
#29
#29
recruited at the end of his second season, while we have the 11th out of 12 in the SEC coming in for 2012 and a the 40th ranked PG in the country lined up for 2013.

Coach Martin will get time, but trotting out Coach K in comparison to this situation is reach of astronomical proportions.
ejvols4 said:
Because 8 games isn't enough time to judge the quality of a coach. It took Coach K three years to produce a winner at Duke. Not saying Martin is gonna be Coach K, but firing him now or anytime this season would be idiotic.
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#31
#31
I'm stunned at where Tennessee has sunken as a program all together, losing to tucky in football, then our Bb team loses to peay.. (deep breath, slowly exhaling..)
 
#33
#33
PoochPunt3rdDown said:
So you suggest exercising another buyout clause during Season 1 to get a new coach? Which coach do you think we have the best shot of getting? The one who wants to follow the Bruce debacle and the young, new and well respected coach who was given an 8-game tenure before being fired for losing to one crappy team?

I'll be willing to listen to your argument after reading your answers.
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Many coaches follow money and do not much care about the previous debacles that have befallen their new employer (see Urban Meyer for a current example). There are coaches who will leave programs they have proven to be successful at for more money. We are not going to get Mark Few or Brad Stevens, that is a given; however, that does not mean that we could not attract mid-major coaches who have won their conference; who have made it to the NCAA tournament; who have won NCAA tournament games.

Instead, we picked a guy who had done only one of those things and had coached with the prior coaches recruits; he had not yet proven anything.

As one of the few AD's in the nation that actually breaks even, I expect UT to pay top dollar for proven coaches; instead, we hire someone that we see "potential" in and watch as ticket sales drop and revenue decreases.
 
#37
#37
therealUT said:
Many coaches follow money and do not much care about the previous debacles that have befallen their new employer (see Urban Meyer for a current example). There are coaches who will leave programs they have proven to be successful at for more money. We are not going to get Mark Few or Brad Stevens, that is a given; however, that does not mean that we could not attract mid-major coaches who have won their conference; who have made it to the NCAA tournament; who have won NCAA tournament games.

Instead, we picked a guy who had done only one of those things and had coached with the prior coaches recruits; he had not yet proven anything.

As one of the few AD's in the nation that actually breaks even, I expect UT to pay top dollar for proven coaches; instead, we hire someone that we see "potential" in and watch as ticket sales drop and revenue decreases.
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Your point would be correct, if we lived in a vacuum and wouldn't look even worse than we did in the fall of last year, while our erstwhile AD was supporting the embattled coach while we were being destroyed in the press and on the court.

Cuonzo can get this team to play hard and compete. He has shown that. Bailing on him right now after one bad game would be shameful and cause even more dissension in the fan base and UTAD. We need a lot less of that.
 
#41
#41
PoochPunt3rdDown said:
Your point would be correct, if we lived in a vacuum and wouldn't look even worse than we did in the fall of last year, while our erstwhile AD was supporting the embattled coach while we were being destroyed in the press and on the court.

Cuonzo can get this team to play hard and compete. He has shown that. Bailing on him right now after one bad game would be shameful and cause even more dissension in the fan base and UTAD. We need a lot less of that.
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I bailed on him before this one. So far in the games I have watched, he is either telling his players to run offensive sets for the vast majority of the time or his players are failing to even attempt to execute offensive sets.

You are right, though. Martin seems to get effort out of his players; however, according to Larry Brown, "effort is not something that should ever need to be coached".

A coach should focus on recruiting talent and then getting that talent to run the coaches system. Players that do not put forth effort and/or do not run the system should find themselves on the bench.

Thus far, I have not seen any good X's and O's basketball in Tennessee games, on either side of the ball; just effort.
 
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#42
#42
therealUT said:
I bailed on him before this one. So far in the games I have watched, he is either telling his players to run offensive sets for the vast majority of the time or his players are failing to even attempt to execute offensive sets.

You are right, though. Martin seems to get effort out of his players; however, according to Larry Brown, "effort is not something that should ever need to be coached".

A coach should focus on recruiting talent and then getting that talent to run the coaches system. Players that do not put forth effort and/or do not run the system should find themselves on the bench.

Thus far, I have not seen any good X's and O's basketball in Tennessee games, on either side of the ball; just effort.
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I think he's spending an inordinate amount of time "uncoaching" these players of bad habits and a careless mentality that can be attributed to the previous staff; Some games they seem to respond and do it his way, other games they revert to past learned behaviors.

The growth of this team will be apparent in the first few SEC games. At that time, I expect more and more will feel the way you do, if the team continues to play like they did today. If we find them playing as well as they did against Memphis and Duke, I doubt any of us will be complaining very much at all.

It's still way too early to be discussing his job security, imo, unless it's just message board fodder....
 
#43
#43
progress in recruiting. You can live with losing (somewhat) if you are re-building the roster. The recruits to this point, are not upgrades. At best, they are treading water with the roster.

Coach K was making progress with his roster by this time in his career.
ejvols4 said:
How so?
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#44
#44
germanicus said:
progress in recruiting. You can live with losing (somewhat) if you are re-building the roster. The recruits to this point, are not upgrades. At best, they are treading water with the roster.

Coach K was making progress with his roster by this time in his career.
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Uh, 8 games into his first season.
Bolderdash!!
 
#45
#45
PoochPunt3rdDown said:
I think he's spending an inordinate amount of time "uncoaching" these players of bad habits and a careless mentality that can be attributed to the previous staff; Some games they seem to respond and do it his way, other games they revert to past learned behaviors.

The growth of this team will be apparent in the first few SEC games. At that time, I expect more and more will feel the way you do, if the team continues to play like they did today. If we find them playing as well as they did against Memphis and Duke, I doubt any of us will be complaining very much at all.

It's still way too early to be discussing his job security, imo, unless it's just message board fodder....
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The mentality of the previous staff was what made us competitive. It's now that the players are buying into martin's system that has us all worried.
 
#46
#46
What is worse? Kentucky loss in football OR Austin Peay loss in basketball????

At least the Kentucky loss didn't happen at home....
 
#50
#50
ejvols4 said:
Because 8 games isn't enough time to judge the quality of a coach. It took Coach K three years to produce a winner at Duke. Not saying Martin is gonna be Coach K, but firing him now or anytime this season would be idiotic.
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when you compare Dooley to Saban, Cuonzo Martin to Coach K, I mean my gosh when is this fan base going to realize neither of these coaches and I use the term loosely can coach a FRIGGIN LICK. Damn it is sickening what is it going to take????????:banghead2:
 
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