Who Increased the Debt?

#26
#26
Baker is trolling here anyway. Dude pops a chart like that and then bails
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#27
#27
RespectTradition said:
I still stand by my opinion, regardless of how much I dislike Obama. Congress is ultimately at fault. The president can't do squat except veto a budget he doesn't like. He can't raise spending one dime unless congress gives him that budget first.
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Exonerating Bush is crazy talk. Guy was atrocious.
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#31
#31
Another reason to hate Facebook - this damn chart is all over it and people are using it to justify everything under the sun.
 
#35
#35
This chart is the equivalent of saying your parent's had huge credit card bills so you shouldn't bother keeping your own debt in check.
 
#36
#36
KiffinKiller said:
I'm surprised there isn't more outrage from the Reagan acolytes. This chart means nothing to me.
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The comparison suffers greatly from a numerator vs denominator issue. Reagan's number is skewed high because the denominator was low and he was fighting out of an enormous recession, as was FDR before him. These last guys are low relatively because the constant enormous growth has gotten the denominator so large that it's hard to impact. Real dollars comparison looks mightily different.
 
#37
#37
It really doesn't mean sh!t. We are either going to go bankrupt like Greece by continuing the spending or we are going to curb it back. Who cares how we got there. Once we are at the cliff we are either going over or we are standing on the edge. The prob is Obama apparently wasn't taught math at that prestigious school he attended.
 
#38
#38
KiffinKiller said:
I'm surprised there isn't more outrage from the Reagan acolytes. This chart means nothing to me.
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Reagan was a very strong leader but times were not good during his 2 terms.. The economy was bad... mortage rates were 12-15%, unemployment was over 9% a couple of years, a large number of retailers closed their doors.. Times were bad.

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010


But it's worth considering just what Reagan did -- and didn't do -- as lawmakers grapple with many of the same issues that their 1980s counterparts faced: a deep recession, high deficits and a rip-roaring political divide over taxes.

After Reagan's first year in office, the annual deficit was 2.6% of gross domestic product. But it hit a high of 6% in 1983, stayed in the 5% range for the next three years, and fell to 3.1% by 1988

Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together "constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

The bills didn't raise more revenue by hiking individual income tax rates though. Instead they did it largely through making it tougher to evade taxes, and through "base broadening" -- that is, reducing various federal tax breaks and closing tax loopholes.


There were other notable tax increases under Reagan.

In 1983, for example, he signed off on Social Security reform legislation that, among other things, accelerated an increase in the payroll tax rate, required that higher-income beneficiaries pay income tax on part of their benefits, and required the self-employed to pay the full payroll tax rate, rather than just the portion normally paid by employees.

The tax reform of 1986, meanwhile, wasn't designed to increase federal tax revenue. But that didn't mean that no one's taxes went up. Because the reform bill eliminated or reduced many tax breaks and shelters, high-income tax filers who previously paid little ended up with bigger tax bills.

While in the early years of his presidency Reagan tried to shrink the IRS, by the end, the number of IRS employees hit an all-time high, according to Steuerle in his book Contemporary U.S. Tax Policy.
 
#39
#39
RespectTradition said:
Congress.

President has veto power and nothing else. The debt is entirely on congress. Except in the few ways that the Executive can spend without congressional consent, but I am ignoring that at as insignificant.
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So you're telling me the president can veto spending bills, but it's not on him? Congress obliging Reagan's arms race is not on Reagan?
 
#40
#40
Gramps said:
Reagan was a very strong leader but times were not good during his 2 terms.. The economy was bad... mortage rates were 12-15%, unemployment was over 9% a couple of years, a large number of retailers closed their doors.. Times were bad.

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010


But it's worth considering just what Reagan did -- and didn't do -- as lawmakers grapple with many of the same issues that their 1980s counterparts faced: a deep recession, high deficits and a rip-roaring political divide over taxes.

After Reagan's first year in office, the annual deficit was 2.6% of gross domestic product. But it hit a high of 6% in 1983, stayed in the 5% range for the next three years, and fell to 3.1% by 1988

Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together "constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

The bills didn't raise more revenue by hiking individual income tax rates though. Instead they did it largely through making it tougher to evade taxes, and through "base broadening" -- that is, reducing various federal tax breaks and closing tax loopholes.


There were other notable tax increases under Reagan.

In 1983, for example, he signed off on Social Security reform legislation that, among other things, accelerated an increase in the payroll tax rate, required that higher-income beneficiaries pay income tax on part of their benefits, and required the self-employed to pay the full payroll tax rate, rather than just the portion normally paid by employees.

The tax reform of 1986, meanwhile, wasn't designed to increase federal tax revenue. But that didn't mean that no one's taxes went up. Because the reform bill eliminated or reduced many tax breaks and shelters, high-income tax filers who previously paid little ended up with bigger tax bills.

While in the early years of his presidency Reagan tried to shrink the IRS, by the end, the number of IRS employees hit an all-time high, according to Steuerle in his book Contemporary U.S. Tax Policy.
Click to expand...


3 things.

1) this is CNN. I don't count CNN as a legitimate source.
2) You don't even mention the Jimmy Carter era that Regan was coming in on.
3) You don't mention the Cold War military spending we were engaged in.
 
#41
#41
theFallGuy said:
This chart is the equivalent of saying your parent's had huge credit card bills so you shouldn't bother keeping your own debt in check.
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Your parents weren't spending your future earnings.

I don't think this chart is saying that at all. I think it's demonstrating that we have a one-party system...the big government party.
 
#43
#43
nbakerld said:
Your parents weren't spending your future earnings.

I don't think this chart is saying that at all. I think it's demonstrating that we have a one-party system...the big government party.
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Well it depends on how you are using the chart. I find most people using charts like this as an excuse to not curb spending at all which is absurd.
 
#44
#44
BigPapaVol said:
The comparison suffers greatly from a numerator vs denominator issue. Reagan's number is skewed high because the denominator was low and he was fighting out of an enormous recession, as was FDR before him. These last guys are low relatively because the constant enormous growth has gotten the denominator so large that it's hard to impact. Real dollars comparison looks mightily different.
Click to expand...

FDR was fighting out of a recession, but I'm not sure if you're saying he was also coming from a low denominator. He wasn't (relative to the time). Hoover was a BIG spender.

Reagan came from a lower denominator than Obama, but I dispute that it was low, historically.
 
#45
#45
theFallGuy said:
3 things.

1) this is CNN. I don't count CNN as a legitimate source.
2) You don't even mention the Jimmy Carter era that Regan was coming in on.
3) You don't mention the Cold War military spending we were engaged in.
Click to expand...

I'm not putting Reagan down in any way. I am stating the facts. Times were bad through the Reagan years, that's a fact. I loved it. I was in the liquidation business, times were very good for me.

Reagan was a strong leader. He was also smart enough to realize he had to fix the problems. One of the things he did was raise some taxes. Some of the things Reagan did are on the table now. They worked in the 80's and will work in 10's.

The GOP does not have all the right answers, The DEMS do not have all the right answers. The correct answer is somewhere in the middle. Reagan was smart enough to know that, after all he DID compromise with Tip O'Neill.
Reagan was far right and O'Neill was far left but they worked together and made things better.

You don't like CNN, maybe you would like the Forbes link better. There are many more links out there.

ALWAYS REMEMBER GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND !!!

Even Reagan Raised Taxes - Forbes.com
 
#48
#48
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