Who is Taylor Taranto?

[InVOLuntary]

You can't believe people are stupid enough to believe video evidence? Hmm.

The video evidence proves my point. You just choose to ignore it. The democrat party is the most corrupt political organization in the history of this country.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Where was the outrage when the loons were at the Supreme Court justices homes?

 

[LouderVol]

Genuinely curious, what do you do during the parts of the videos of 1/6 that show cops being kicked and beaten? Do you just close your eyes or fast forward?

charge them.

What do you do during the parts of the videos where it clearly shows the guards letting them in and them staying in the roped off portions?

If there was ever a case for a "Mostly peaceful" protest 1/6 was it.

There are about 4 or 5 guilty of violence.
there are a couple dozen guilty of trespassing/destruction of government property.
thats out of a couple hundred that made it into Capitol and did absolutely nothing wrong.
and thats out of 10,000+ who just showed up and did nothing but protest.

and somehow that was worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

 

[lawgator1]

charge them.

What do you do during the parts of the videos where it clearly shows the guards letting them in and them staying in the roped off portions?

If there was ever a case for a "Mostly peaceful" protest 1/6 was it.

There are about 4 or 5 guilty of violence.
there are a couple dozen guilty of trespassing/destruction of government property.
thats out of a couple hundred that made it into Capitol and did absolutely nothing wrong.
and thats out of 10,000+ who just showed up and did nothing but protest.

and somehow that was worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

4 or 5??????

When you make such a ridiculous statement you completely undermine your larger point.

 

[LouderVol]

I'm not the one who made the "guided tour" claim. You yourself just helped debunk that idiotic claim by bringing up Babbitt. It's true the security basically gave up, but that occured AFTER they were overran and beaten.

and that doesn't mean that the people who stayed peaceful were guilty of anything. but the entire argument around 1/6 relies on making peaceful people guilty of more than they are to make it worse than it was.

 

[LouderVol]

4 or 5??????

When you make such a ridiculous statement you completely undermine your larger point.

I am referring to the violence actually on the steps of the Capitol. I understand there was separate violence going on in DC/the mall that resulted in the claims of "hundreds" of cops getting injured. note that they include pushing as a valid injury in their survey/report.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-22-104829.pdf
jump to page 106 for results.

that actually "beat" up the guards. yes 4 or 5.
I mean if you want to say the people who simply laid hands, but did no damage, then yeah you are going to drag in a bunch more people.
If you mean the AOC level facing death then yeah probably millions of people guilty.

 

[RockyTop85]

charge them.

What do you do during the parts of the videos where it clearly shows the guards letting them in and them staying in the roped off portions?

If there was ever a case for a "Mostly peaceful" protest 1/6 was it.

There are about 4 or 5 guilty of violence.
there are a couple dozen guilty of trespassing/destruction of government property.
thats out of a couple hundred that made it into Capitol and did absolutely nothing wrong.
and thats out of 10,000+ who just showed up and did nothing but protest.

and somehow that was worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

How far off would these numbers have to be for you to admit your conclusions are incorrect? More or less than a factor of 12?

 

[LouderVol]

That was AFTER they had beaten and overwhelmed them. Any sane person knows that. The CP had a choice, start shooting or back down. They backed down. You should be grateful for that, not using it some selling point.

so there was literally no step they could have taken between shooting people and giving them a guided tour in roped off areas?

seems like there is plenty of both violent and non-violent gray area between the two.

 

[LouderVol]

How far off would these numbers have to be for you to admit your conclusions are incorrect? More or less than a factor of 12?

I read their actual report, link it up above. I am not going to call a cop getting pushed or shoved as "beaten". if you guys are going all AOC on me on what it means to be beaten then you clearly don't want to have a real conversation.

if you have a better source than the report they use to claim these "hundreds" of injuries, be my guest to provide, I will read it and reconsider.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Lol. Bush reacted well.

Can you imagine Biden in same situation. He'd get hit, fall down, and would need a debrief to understand what happened.

It looks like he cracked a little bit of a smile after the first shoe

 

[RockyTop85]

I read their actual report, link it up above. I am not going to call a cop getting pushed or shoved as "beaten". if you guys are going all AOC on me on what it means to be beaten then you clearly don't want to have a real conversation.

if you have a better source than the report they use to claim these "hundreds" of injuries, be my guest to provide, I will read it and reconsider.

There is a single video of one cop getting dragged down some stairs, stomped, and beaten with whatever people could lay hands on that puts the number at or above 5 so it’s apparent that you’ve gone full MTG about what actually happened, and you’ll have to pardon my derisive snort at you thinking anybody would come to you for a “real conversation.”

My question is just how confident you are in that number vs. how tightly you’ve tied yourself to the conclusion. But sounds like you’re not willing to put a number on it?

 

[LouderVol]

There is a single video of one cop getting dragged down some stairs, stomped, and beaten with whatever people could lay hands on that puts the number at or above 5 so it’s apparent that you’ve gone full MTG about what actually happened, and you’ll have to pardon my derisive snort at you thinking anybody would come to you for a “real conversation.”

My question is just how confident you are in that number vs. how tightly you’ve tied yourself to the conclusion. But sounds like you’re not willing to put a number on it?

How confident? I wouldnt be shocked at all if I was off by at least that many 4-5. I would be floored if it was the 12x you alluded to.

And I provided an actual reference. THE actual reference. Did MTG do that? Did any of you guys actually do that? Or are you going off preconvienved notions from highly selective video selections to frame hundreds of people as violent to the point of calling it a beating. Maybe it semantics, but I have looked at the source material, which you have yet to even acknowledge, hence me saying you arent interested in a conversation.

And if you actually did look at the report the cops admitted in the survey to using violence at a rate 3x what they recieved. Do you want to put a number to how many of the cops, general term for any security present, "beat" civilians? Because you are going to have a hard time justifying the GOA numbers based on your 12x assumption and claim it was all or even mostly justified force.

 

[RockyTop85]

How confident? I wouldnt be shocked at all if I was off by at least that many 4-5. I would be floored if it was the 12x you alluded to.

And I provided an actual reference. THE actual reference. Did MTG do that? Did any of you guys actually do that? Or are you going off preconvienved notions from highly selective video selections to frame hundreds of people as violent to the point of calling it a beating. Maybe it semantics, but I have looked at the source material, which you have yet to even acknowledge, hence me saying you arent interested in a conversation.

And if you actually did look at the report the cops admitted in the survey to using violence at a rate 3x what they recieved. Do you want to put a number to how many of the cops, general term for any security present, "beat" civilians? Because you are going to have a hard time justifying the GOA numbers based on your 12x assumption and claim it was all or even mostly justified force.

So are you saying it doesn’t need to be 12x higher to make you question your overall conclusion? Just 2x? That’s only 10 people out of thousands. Surely it has to be higher than that.

 

[McDad]

There is a single video of one cop getting dragged down some stairs, stomped, and beaten with whatever people could lay hands on that puts the number at or above 5 so it’s apparent that you’ve gone full MTG about what actually happened, and you’ll have to pardon my derisive snort at you thinking anybody would come to you for a “real conversation.”

My question is just how confident you are in that number vs. how tightly you’ve tied yourself to the conclusion. But sounds like you’re not willing to put a number on it?

This is an interesting discussion.

Are you saying Louder's source from the gao is wrong, or Louder is misrepresenting the content? Is the video you saw more compelling evidence than an official report?

 

[McDad]

How confident? I wouldnt be shocked at all if I was off by at least that many 4-5. I would be floored if it was the 12x you alluded to.

And I provided an actual reference. THE actual reference. Did MTG do that? Did any of you guys actually do that? Or are you going off preconvienved notions from highly selective video selections to frame hundreds of people as violent to the point of calling it a beating. Maybe it semantics, but I have looked at the source material, which you have yet to even acknowledge, hence me saying you arent interested in a conversation.

And if you actually did look at the report the cops admitted in the survey to using violence at a rate 3x what they recieved. Do you want to put a number to how many of the cops, general term for any security present, "beat" civilians? Because you are going to have a hard time justifying the GOA numbers based on your 12x assumption and claim it was all or even mostly justified force.

Is the source material refuted or contradicted by any other official summary or report as far as you know?

 

[LouderVol]

So are you saying it doesn’t need to be 12x higher to make you question your overall conclusion? Just 2x? That’s only 10 people out of thousands. Surely it has to be higher than that.

which conclusion? Just on the number of people? Yeah it was mass chaos, I doubt anybody could ever prove an actual number one way or the other.
or that the conclusion of the number of people being up to a whopping 60 doesn't count as a coup or a revolt? Because yeah, 60 doesn't change that for me.

again, especially considering the GOA report that the cops used 3x the violence. at some point the cops are riling up the crowd, and its pretty clear given the language used, that certain people want it to be worse than it was. and its not the MAGA crowd of gun owning government hating rednecks who all suddenly forgot to bring their guns or hurt any politician in their effort to "overthrow the government".

 

[LouderVol]

Is the source material refuted or contradicted by any other official summary or report as far as you know?

the source material being the GAO report/survey results? (noticed i had been typing that wrong in the last couple posts).

I have not seen any formal refutation of it. There have been claims made by politicians and some of the cops involved that were, imo, exaggerating events of the day. vs the story told by the report. but none of them called the GAO report into question. The only time I have seen the GAO report referenced at all was to actually use it to increase the number of injuries, which seems like they believe its correct/valid.

If you read the survey, the implications get more scary. A good number of the cops report that they didn't use more violence because they weren't ordered to forcibly remove the protestors/rioters/looters/revoltees/coupers. Which means they chose the level of violence we saw from them. At some point violence turns into a self feeding conflagration where its impossible to say who really caused it.

If the literal first case of violence was a protestor shoving a cop, does that justify the final level of violence from both sides? no, imo.
if the literal first case of violence was a cop shoving a protestor, does that justify the final level of violence from both sides? no, imo.

at some point isolated incidents boil over into a mass case of violence. and according to the survey of the participating cops they self report using violence far more than they received. and if they are arguing they weren't ordered to use that level of violence to protect the Capitol or our Republic it circles back to the individual incidents feeding in on itself. which imo speaks highly that it was not an organized coup. The cops have just as much right to self defense as the civilians involved, but that doesn't generate a specific threat to our Republic. which is why I am telling Rocky that the final numbers don't change my overall opinion on the matter.

 

[lawgator1]

and its not the MAGA crowd of gun owning government hating rednecks who all suddenly forgot to bring their guns or hurt any politician in their effort to "overthrow the government".

Actually, they were quite violent at different points. Chanting out "Hang Mike Pence" or words to that effect, and invading offices of various lawmakers, causing their security details to hurry them all to safety, is pretty damning to the weaksauce effort of the MAGA supporters to minimize what went on that day. You guys need to face the reality of what occurred because the spin to pretend like it was not serious reinforces the notion that the MAGA crowd is flat out delusional at this point.

 

[hUTch2002]

Warrant out for his arrest for January 6 involvement at the Capitol.

Livestreamed himself going to a government building that houses a nuclear reactor, with what he said was a detonator for his vehicle.

Arrested with a firearm, blocks from Obama's house, when spotted by authorities. Was livestreaming again saying he was looking for "entrance points" or tunnels under the residences nearby. Hundreds of rounds of ammo, two firearms, and a machete.

Frequent protestor outside the D.C. jail, where other January 6 participants housed.

Has threatened to kill Speaker McCarthy because he has talked about making more 1/6 footage public.

Snuck into a school to show a movie about 1/6.

Taylor Taranto, Jan. 6 defendant arrested near Obama's home, threatened to blow up van at government facility, feds say

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/05/poli...ion-memo-obama-neighborhood-arrest/index.html


So how, exactly, did he know where Obama lived?

This, ladies and gentleman, is the face of MAGA in this country. He clearly has mental health issues. But its shameful that people like him get goaded on by jackarses like Trump. He should never see the light of day.

Don’t be stupid. I know, too late. MAGA means Make America Great Again. This loony tunes moron isn’t the face of Making America Great Again. He’s just an extremist, just like the leftist extremists that exist. Are they the face of the Dem party?

 

[LouderVol]

Actually, they were quite violent at different points. Chanting out "Hang Mike Pence" or words to that effect, and invading offices of various lawmakers, causing their security details to hurry them all to safety, is pretty damning to the weaksauce effort of the MAGA supporters to minimize what went on that day. You guys need to face the reality of what occurred because the spin to pretend like it was not serious reinforces the notion that the MAGA crowd is flat out delusional at this point.

define serious? I have already said the violent/damaging/vandals/trespassers should go to jail, I should also say they should have their day in court first.
it was a violent protest and or riot.

I don't see some temporarily occupied empty offices as equal to a revolt or coup. I don't see violence on the steps of the Capitol as a coup either. Otherwise we have suffered a couple dozen coups over the course of our history. Heck over in the Ukraine thread we are debating if 25k armed soldiers marching on their capitol shooting down government aircraft actually was a coup or not.

I was down here and present for some of the "mostly peaceful protesting" in Atlanta, that resulted in a lot more violence than we saw on 1/6, and I never once heard that described as a coup against the Mayoral Office or Governors Office. not sure if coup is the applicable term there.

I am simply trying to apply the same standard.

 

[LouderVol]

Actually, they were quite violent at different points. Chanting out "Hang Mike Pence" or words to that effect, and invading offices of various lawmakers, causing their security details to hurry them all to safety, is pretty damning to the weaksauce effort of the MAGA supporters to minimize what went on that day. You guys need to face the reality of what occurred because the spin to pretend like it was not serious reinforces the notion that the MAGA crowd is flat out delusional at this point.

I am not sure I was describe either of those cases as violent. Illegal, sure. violent, no. a coup/treason/revolt, also no.

 

[lawgator1]

I am not sure I was describe either of those cases as violent. Illegal, sure. violent, no. a coup/treason/revolt, also no.

 

[LouderVol]

lets say a MAGA crowd (because thats the part that matter to you) breaks into your office and sit at your desk while you guys are formalizing the change in leadership. Is there any risk of your business being fundamentally changed?

are the law offices of LG going to have to permanently close? Are they going to be able to view an email and from that single action of viewing, be able to change the leadership of your office? Does taking a side table from your conference room change the very tenants of your practice?

If that happened at my office it would be disruptive for the day. It would definitely be illegal by the perps. I would maybe get lectured on not logging off from my computer when I leave, and we would go right back to it, and the next day the leadership would change. Maybe its different for you, which is why this is such a big deal.

could it have been a coup if about a dozen different things were different, yes. Or I guess some single big things, yes. Does what actually happened constitute a coup? Absolutely not.

 

[lawgator1]

lets say a MAGA crowd (because thats the part that matter to you) breaks into your office and sit at your desk while you guys are formalizing the change in leadership. Is there any risk of your business being fundamentally changed?

are the law offices of LG going to have to permanently close? Are they going to be able to view an email and from that single action of viewing, be able to change the leadership of your office? Does taking a side table from your conference room change the very tenants of your practice?

If that happened at my office it would be disruptive for the day. It would definitely be illegal by the perps. I would maybe get lectured on not logging off from my computer when I leave, and we would go right back to it, and the next day the leadership would change. Maybe its different for you, which is why this is such a big deal.

could it have been a coup if about a dozen different things were different, yes. Or I guess some single big things, yes. Does what actually happened constitute a coup? Absolutely not.

Wow. That's your answer? They didn't manage to hang Spence or Pelosi and returned to business down the line, so its all okay?? Really??

 

[Majors]

If he's convicted of insurrection or rebellion he is barred under the 14th amendment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/08/trump-president-legal-obstacles/

“If”

Not feeling confident anymore now those other “ifs” didn’t pan out.