Who is the greatest defensive shortstop to ever play the game?

#51
#51
McGwire is a disgrace to baseball. It says a lot that LaRussa would want him on staff
 
#53
#53
So it's ok, as long as LaRussa isn't sticking the needle in himself? You sound like a Tennessee fan defending Lane Kiffin! Haha
 
#54
#54
golfballs03 said:
So it's ok, as long as LaRussa isn't sticking the needle in himself? You sound like a Tennessee fan defending Lane Kiffin! Haha
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I'm not defending anyone. I'm just enjoying this enlightening conversation. How could I defend La Russa, Pujols, or anyone else mentioned so far with the compelling and fresh evidence you've brought against them? The more I think about it, I don't know why you weren't there in Congress on March 17, 2005 asking the questions.
 
#55
#55
Oh ok. And before A Rod was implicated there was no way he was on juice either, because he was always a good hitter!
 
#57
#57
Pujols may be a great hitter, but there is little doubt in my mind that he's on HGH, and that isn't his fault, but the people who helped perpetuate the culture that corrupted baseball. One of those people is none other than his own manager. Even if it was, as NYY said, simply turning his head.
 
#58
#58
tidwell said:
He was never a good hitter even with the drugs.
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McGwire as hitting coach:

McGwire: See, what you want to be doing is hitting dingers.
McGwire: When you go up there, first pitch, you're looking dead red so you can hit a dinger.
McGwire: Sometimes you're gonna miss. That's okay. Stick to your guns. There's no more efficient way of scoring than hitting a dinger. That's what we want to be doing.
McGwire: The pitcher might pick up on your strategy. Don't worry about it. He's more afraid of you than you are of him.
McGwire: If he throws you something offspeed, like a curveball, don't be fooled. Just hit it for a dinger.
McGwire: Walks are good too. If the pitcher tries to get you to chase something out of the zone, don't swing at it.
McGwire: You only want to swing at strikes. Take balls. Hit strikes for dingers.
McGwire: Now let's break up and practice. Group A, get in there. I want to see you guys hitting dingers. Group B, practice your dinger swings.
McGwire: Who's first in Group A? Skip? Get in there, Skip.
McGwire: Let's see some dingers!
Schumaker:
Schumaker: Coach, I don't
McGwire: What're you doing over there?
McGwire: You're standing on the wrong side of the plate. Bat righty.
McGwire: You hit dingers batting righty.
 
#59
#59
NYYVol said:
I bet they ship directly to LaRussa's house.
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This much cultivating seems awfully stressful. Who could blame a guy for drinking and driving every once in awhile under those circumstances?
 
#60
#60
golfballs03 said:
Pujols may be a great hitter, but there is little doubt in my mind that he's on HGH, and that isn't his fault, but the people who helped perpetuate the culture that corrupted baseball. One of those people is none other than his own manager. Even if it was, as NYY said, simply turning his head.
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Remind us again which manager over the past 30 years stood up and said, "You know what, guys? This is wrong. I don't want these guys on my team. I'm out if this doesn't stop."
 
#61
#61
Vercingetorix said:
McGwire as hitting coach:

McGwire: See, what you want to be doing is hitting dingers.
McGwire: When you go up there, first pitch, you're looking dead red so you can hit a dinger.
McGwire: Sometimes you're gonna miss. That's okay. Stick to your guns. There's no more efficient way of scoring than hitting a dinger. That's what we want to be doing.
McGwire: The pitcher might pick up on your strategy. Don't worry about it. He's more afraid of you than you are of him.
McGwire: If he throws you something offspeed, like a curveball, don't be fooled. Just hit it for a dinger.
McGwire: Walks are good too. If the pitcher tries to get you to chase something out of the zone, don't swing at it.
McGwire: You only want to swing at strikes. Take balls. Hit strikes for dingers.
McGwire: Now let's break up and practice. Group A, get in there. I want to see you guys hitting dingers. Group B, practice your dinger swings.
McGwire: Who's first in Group A? Skip? Get in there, Skip.
McGwire: Let's see some dingers!
Schumaker:
Schumaker: Coach, I don't
McGwire: What're you doing over there?
McGwire: You're standing on the wrong side of the plate. Bat righty.
McGwire: You hit dingers batting righty.
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Strong.
 
#62
#62
tidwell said:
Remind us again which manager over the past 30 years stood up and said, "You know what, guys? This is wrong. I don't want these guys on my team. I'm out if this doesn't stop."
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Whitey Herzog dumped Keith Hernandez over his cocaine use. That's the closest example I can think of.
 
#63
#63
tidwell said:
Remind us again which manager over the past 30 years stood up and said, "You know what, guys? This is wrong. I don't want these guys on my team. I'm out if this doesn't stop."
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Remind me of another manager who was more blatantly confronted with it than the one who managed Canseco, McGwire and Giambi.
 
#64
#64
golfballs03 said:
Remind me of another manager who was more blatantly confronted with it than the one who managed Canseco, McGwire and Giambi.
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We've already established that Tony La Russa single-handedly cultivated, encouraged, and promoted the PED Era in MLB and supplied the users, but now we just need to nail down which managers took the moral stand against La Russa's reign of terror across the sport instead of just "letting it happen."
 
#65
#65
tidwell said:
This much cultivating seems awfully stressful. Who could blame a guy for drinking and driving every once in awhile under those circumstances?
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Just reading some of the logic around here makes me want a very strong drink. Or twelve.
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#66
#66
golfballs03 said:
Oh ok. And before A Rod was implicated there was no way he was on juice either, because he was always a good hitter!
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And no, the fact that A-Rod was a good hitter before being implicated simply proved that he was using performance enhancers. You apparently missed that aforementioned memo as well.
 
#67
#67
Vercingetorix said:
McGwire as hitting coach:

McGwire: See, what you want to be doing is hitting dingers.
McGwire: When you go up there, first pitch, you're looking dead red so you can hit a dinger.
McGwire: Sometimes you're gonna miss. That's okay. Stick to your guns. There's no more efficient way of scoring than hitting a dinger. That's what we want to be doing.
McGwire: The pitcher might pick up on your strategy. Don't worry about it. He's more afraid of you than you are of him.
McGwire: If he throws you something offspeed, like a curveball, don't be fooled. Just hit it for a dinger.
McGwire: Walks are good too. If the pitcher tries to get you to chase something out of the zone, don't swing at it.
McGwire: You only want to swing at strikes. Take balls. Hit strikes for dingers.
McGwire: Now let's break up and practice. Group A, get in there. I want to see you guys hitting dingers. Group B, practice your dinger swings.
McGwire: Who's first in Group A? Skip? Get in there, Skip.
McGwire: Let's see some dingers!
Schumaker:
Schumaker: Coach, I don't
McGwire: What're you doing over there?
McGwire: You're standing on the wrong side of the plate. Bat righty.
McGwire: You hit dingers batting righty.
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
#68
#68
golfballs03 said:
Remind me of another manager who was more blatantly confronted with it than the one who managed Canseco, McGwire and Giambi.
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Jim Fregosi . . . There was no way you could look at a 1993 Phillies team picture and not know.
 
#70
#70
Who is the greatest defensive shortstop to ever play the game?

Rafael Ramirez.....I'm sure its been stated multiple times in this thread, but I'll take the Wizard
 
#71
#71
Rafael Ramirez and that treacherous playing surface at the old stadium were made for each other.
 
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#73
#73
GAVol said:
Jim Fregosi . . . There was no way you could look at a 1993 Phillies team picture and not know.
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Surely you aren't implying Lenny Dykstra and Pete Incaviglia did something other than eat right and work out religiously. That's insulting.
 
#74
#74
hatvol96 said:
Surely you aren't implying Lenny Dykstra and Pete Incaviglia did something other than eat right and work out religiously. That's insulting.
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Incaviglia might have been legit early. He was a monster in college.
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