Who is the worst President of our lifetime?

Who is the worst President in our lifetime?

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#26
#26
So basically we can say it was a buildup over many decades. One cannot really pinpoint when it all 'blew up' for a lack of better term.
 
#27
#27
KentheOrange said:
Are you kidding?

In the last six years we have become a harder target, but not a hard one yet which I blame on lax immigration enforcement. Look to the east to see the Muslim effect in Europe. England, Germany and France have real problems. We get pissed when illegals march in the street with Mexican flags, Muslim march in Europe carrying signs promising death to all non-Muslims. Spain operates out of fear and the extremists KNOW they can control elections with threats of violence because they have done it.
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Is this it? After almost eight years, we're a "harder" target?
 
#29
#29
OWB said:
Is this it? After almost eight years, we're a "harder" target?
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You seem to be in denial that there are people in this world that want to kill you simply because you do not share their beliefs. If true, that denial will help you lose the life and/or lifestyle you enjoy now.

To answer your question, yes. That, coupled with actions other than sticking his head in the sand to combat the situation will, in my opinion, cause history to be kind to Bush. Truman is much better thought of now than when he was sent back to Missouri.

As I have stated before, I really hope I'm wrong but I don't think so.
:cray:
 
#30
#30
Would history be kind to someone who took a detour rather than pursued to "combat the situation"?
 
#31
#31
KentheOrange said:
You seem to be in denial that there are people in this world that want to kill you simply because you do not share their beliefs. If true, that denial will help you lose the life and/or lifestyle you enjoy now.
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I'm not in denial, I just don't let that influence everything I do and every choice I make. Considering all of the terrorists we've created in Iraq and our unwillingness to dedicate our resources to chasing Al-Queada, I should probably worry a little more huh?
 
#32
#32
OWB said:
I'm not in denial, I just don't let that influence everything I do and every choice I make. Considering all of the terrorists we've created in Iraq and our unwillingness to dedicate our resources to chasing Al-Queada, I should probably worry a little more huh?
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1. It does not affect my daily routine either.
2. I don't believe we have created any terrorists, just have the more active ones concentrated in one place.
3. I think we are chasing Al-Queada, both in Iraq and Afghanistan and would be much better off if we could add Pakistan to the search area.
4. I'm not really sure how we bridged the gap from how history will judge "W" to our daily routines.
:no:
 
#33
#33
We haven't created any? Well we sure created a training camp for them in Iraq using live American targets. Strange how the supposed Al Qaeda training camp that got us into Iraq has now actually become a full nation training camp. I guess all of the death squads in Iraq have also been there all the time.
 
#34
#34
Out of the list I have to choose from, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush I cannot choose any of them.

Choosing from the overall list I would choose Carter.
 
#35
#35
CSpindizzy said:
We haven't created any? Well we sure created a training camp for them in Iraq using live American targets. Strange how the supposed Al Qaeda training camp that got us into Iraq has now actually become a full nation training camp. I guess all of the death squads in Iraq have also been there all the time.
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Nothing you said shows we created new ones. Just because they have decided to become very active due to our presence says nothing towards us creating any.
 
#36
#36
allvol123 said:
Nothing you said shows we created new ones. Just because they have decided to become very active due to our presence says nothing towards us creating any.
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And nothing anyone else has said or shown said that those we are fighting have been terrorists for years. It's hard to imagine that seeing war, death, economic hardships, etc. do not create new hatreds. If you think that no new hatreds have come from this situation you need to read history. If there was a set number of terrorists and no new ones have been created are we near the endpoint? If so, how close? How do you know?
 
#37
#37
CSpindizzy said:
It's hard to imagine that seeing war, death, economic hardships, etc. do not create new hatreds.
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I agree to some degree, but it's also not as if war, death and economic hardship did not exist in Iraq before we got there. I don't think we've necessarily created that many new terrorists as much as an epicenter has formed.
 
#38
#38
CSpindizzy said:
And nothing anyone else has said or shown said that those we are fighting have been terrorists for years. It's hard to imagine that seeing war, death, economic hardships, etc. do not create new hatreds. If you think that no new hatreds have come from this situation you need to read history. If there was a set number of terrorists and no new ones have been created are we near the endpoint? If so, how close? How do you know?
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Yes I am sure new hatreds are created as well as new friendships and goodwill. I am interested to see some facts that show a net plus of the "new" terrorists we have created. Any of the "new" terrorists are probably not as "new" as you are claiming, more like they were created years ago while being brainwashed from early childhood. Just because new terrorists are created does not necessarily mean they are created because we are there. I believe new ones have been groomed long before we settled down into Iraq. But the silliness about how we are creating "new" terrorists is fun to read.
 
#39
#39
Well I am just as interested to see some proof that those fighting have been long term members of the terrorist club. Maybe we can check club membership and verify if any new members have joined. It's just not reality to say the number of terrorists has been stagnant for the past 4-5 years. It's amazing to read quotes by Iraqis who were there to welcome US forces in and watch the statue of Saddam come down who now despise the US for the situation there. But I guess deep down these people were groomed long ago.

If there is such wide-spread and long term grooming, what hope is there for democracy in the region? How can we tell who these groomed but not active ones are? Kill them all and sort them out later?
 
#40
#40
CSpindizzy said:
Well I am just as interested to see some proof that those fighting have been long term members of the terrorist club. Maybe we can check club membership and verify if any new members have joined. It's just not reality to say the number of terrorists has been stagnant for the past 4-5 years. It's amazing to read quotes by Iraqis who were there to welcome US forces in and watch the statue of Saddam come down who now despise the US for the situation there. But I guess deep down these people were groomed long ago.

If there is such wide-spread and long term grooming, what hope is there for democracy in the region? How can we tell who these groomed but not active ones are? Kill them all and sort them out later?
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Never said the number of terrorists has remained stagnant.

I would say there is not much hope in that region for long term democracy. Yes to the last part, either wage war or get out. I do not have a problem with the US being in Iraq, I have a problem with the US being there and playing the role of teacher in a class of misfits.
 
#41
#41
allvol123 said:
Nothing you said shows we created new ones. Just because they have decided to become very active due to our presence says nothing towards us creating any.
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So you think that there's not ONE Iraqi boy who has picked up a gun, RPG or set an IED on the road for the first time when he wouldn't have otherwise?
 
#42
#42
OWB said:
So you think that there's not ONE Iraqi boy who has picked up a gun, RPG or set an IED on the road for the first time when he wouldn't have otherwise?
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You have no idea how much it pains me to agree with you.

:cray: :banghead2: :frown: :sick:
 
#44
#44
OWB said:
So you think that there's not ONE Iraqi boy who has picked up a gun, RPG or set an IED on the road for the first time when he wouldn't have otherwise?
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There are also Iraqi's who have put aside guns, IEDs, etc. because they have seen the benevolence of the US at work in their regions.

Yes, some people are probably more inclined to commit acts of violent terror in Iraq. However, there are also those who are now less inclined due to our presence.

Many in the Arab world have been spreading their message of "America is the Great Satan" for well over thirty years. That message does more to create terrorists than our presence in Iraq could ever hope to.
 
#45
#45
OWB said:
So you think that there's not ONE Iraqi boy who has picked up a gun, RPG or set an IED on the road for the first time when he wouldn't have otherwise?
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I am sure there has been. We just gave him a target to practice his hatred. It was in him before we arrived.
 
#46
#46
therealUT said:
There are also Iraqi's who have put aside guns, IEDs, etc. because they have seen the benevolence of the US at work in their regions.

Yes, some people are probably more inclined to commit acts of violent terror in Iraq. However, there are also those who are now less inclined due to our presence.

Many in the Arab world have been spreading their message of "America is the Great Satan" for well over thirty years. That message does more to create terrorists than our presence in Iraq could ever hope to.
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I don't mind agreeing with you as much.......

:peace2:
 
#47
#47
therealUT said:
There are also Iraqi's who have put aside guns, IEDs, etc. because they have seen the benevolence of the US at work in their regions.

Yes, some people are probably more inclined to commit acts of violent terror in Iraq. However, there are also those who are now less inclined due to our presence.

Many in the Arab world have been spreading their message of "America is the Great Satan" for well over thirty years. That message does more to create terrorists than our presence in Iraq could ever hope to.
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Who has been laying down their arms? The ones that have been fighting Saddam and his army all along? The police/troops that our guys have supposedly trained?
 
#48
#48
therealUT said:
Many in the Arab world have been spreading their message of "America is the Great Satan" for well over thirty years. That message does more to create terrorists than our presence in Iraq could ever hope to.
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Never before have they seen the US firsthand. Keep in mind that those devout Muslims now see western culture much more prevalent than before. Rock music, porn, etc. is now in their face rather than just words spewing from the mouths of the imams and mullahs. People tend to react differently from what they are told to actually living it firsthand.
 
#49
#49
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,’’ it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.
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The rest of it
 
#50
#50
OWB said:
Who has been laying down their arms? The ones that have been fighting Saddam and his army all along? The police/troops that our guys have supposedly trained?
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Yeah. The ones we've put hope in propping up the government whenever we leave. You'd think we are training French to keep that country protected.
 
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