Why didnt Hart go after an NFL coordiantor?

#26
#26
I would not be happy with Andy Reid or Norv Turner coaching this team. Tony Dungy would be a good choice but he has made it clear he doesn't want to coach anymore. I'm OK with what we have, but did hope we would have hit that home run instead of the double we got. Still better than the strike out (without swinging) that we had last year. We have gotten better folks.
 
#27
#27
The pro to college job switch very often does not work. We needed a proven coach who knows how to recruit.
 
#28
#28
JAllen18 said:
Any reason why Hart chose to settle for Butch Jones?
Before I get the negavol not a vfl, support our coach hate. I'm just asking because it's quite odd that after so many rejections from the top college head coaches, one would assume we would look at a few NFL coaches. Hart didn't go after any NFL coordinators and there were reportedly a few interested in the job. He also didn't wait for the NFL season to end and puruse any fired NFL head coaches. Maybe, he was worried that a Lane Kiffin sceanrio would happen, but that would be rare. Just very odd to me.
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I believe one reason Hart didn't wait for the NFL season to end was recruiting. The prospective coach would have been at a terrible recruiting disadvantage had he waited. Also, in retrospect, I believe Hart was looking at everyone's past records as well as their future potential. Jones has an excellent record of taking losing programs and making them winners on a college level. As Vol Nation as been so quick to point out, NFL success or failure is in no way an indication of future success in college. Therefore, one couldn't accurately grade an NFL coordinator nor could he determine with any accuracy weather or not they could successfully change levels and still be productive. All and all Jones appears to be a perfect fit for Tennessee. However, Hart was not very professional in his approach to this assignment.
 
#29
#29
JAllen18 said:
Any reason why Hart chose to settle for Butch Jones?
Before I get the negavol not a vfl, support our coach hate. I'm just asking because it's quite odd that after so many rejections from the top college head coaches, one would assume we would look at a few NFL coaches. Hart didn't go after any NFL coordinators and there were reportedly a few interested in the job. He also didn't wait for the NFL season to end and puruse any fired NFL head coaches. Maybe, he was worried that a Lane Kiffin sceanrio would happen, but that would be rare. Just very odd to me.
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I think you have assumed a few things not established as fact. The rumors were flying wild with all kinds of people claiming to know all sorts of things.

It does seem that FSU headed off the Fisher talk very early by giving him a reason to stay. The job was probably his. I honestly doubt ANYONE outside of the characters actually involved know what happened with Gruden and even they only know it from their narrow perspective. Strong was offered.... then Jones.

I am not sure that constitutes "settling" anymore than Gruden would have been "settling" because Fisher was not available or Strong would have been "settling".... and especially when you are talking about a VERY successful coach. That is the only thing you can call a coach at any level who has won a championship in 2/3's of the seasons he's been a HC.

I have hired alot of people over the past couple of years. You have to choose to pursue someone first. That may or may not mean that you see them as clearly superior to the other finalists. Gruden stands out because of "star appeal" more than as an actual coach. After that, I am just as satisfied with Jones' qualifications as any of the other college HC's that were mentioned as realistic possibilities.


Now to your question. There was actually at least one coordinator mentioned during the search. IMO, the concern would always be that they had not been a HC and might struggle with recruiting. I thought Doug Marrone would have made a good hire for UT instead of Kiffin. In his 4th year at Syracuse he finally did something noteworthy. If he'd been trying to do an OJT stint at UT.... he would have been Dooleyed by this fanbase.

It would almost have to be an NFL guy with fairly recent college experience at the coordinator or HC level. There may not have been anyone that fit that bill.
 
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#32
#32
VolsNSkinsFan said:
PSU just won 8 games after their best players transferred out with an NFL OC. Hart panicked
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Because Hart didn't take an NFL coach, he panicked? Hart took one of the guys that was on his short list. Now, I assume if CBJ turned him down, he may have started sweating.

The more I see, the more I think this was a good hire. Aggressive coach with a pretty good coaching team and proven HC experience to hit the ground running. Of course, time will tell. I'm really interested to see our recruiting results.
 
#33
#33
VolsNSkinsFan said:
PSU just won 8 games after their best players transferred out with an NFL OC. Hart panicked
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Nearly all head coaches were coordinators at some point. They had to start somewhere. But, for every example of success, there is an example of failure.

The point is it is a risk to hire someone with no experience as a HC. It may work out great, and it may not. I think the AD thought is he was minimizing risk by going with a coach with HC experience and recruiting experience. Obviously, there are risks associated with ANY hire. He just went with the ones that he was most comfortable with.

Coaching in the NFL is a lot different than in college. A lot of times in college, the talent disparity alone is enough to win games. Alabama could beat 75 percent of the teams in the NCAA if the complete coaching staff LITERALLY didn't participate. But, in the NFL, the talent level is more even. You have to emphasize different things.
 
#35
#35
screenthis said:
Because Hart didn't take an NFL coach, he panicked? Hart took one of the guys that was on his short list. Now, I assume if CBJ turned him down, he may have started sweating.

The more I see, the more I think this was a good hire. Aggressive coach with a pretty good coaching team and proven HC experience to hit the ground running. Of course, time will tell. I'm really interested to see our recruiting results.
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lets be honest here, we first called Butch at 10pm on wednesday night after Dave was repeatedly turned down by others, and he was our coach the next morning. "TennesseeTurnedDown" was trending on twitter that day and the media was laughing at us. Its very clear Butch was nowhere near the top of the list. The staff Butch has brought in are basically SEC castaways. A coach who won a BCSNC game as our QB, just said no thanks. Im cheering for the guy, but the odds are stacked against him. PSU made a great move, btw
 
#36
#36
JAllen18 said:
Any reason why Hart chose to settle for Butch Jones?
Before I get the negavol not a vfl, support our coach hate. I'm just asking because it's quite odd that after so many rejections from the top college head coaches, one would assume we would look at a few NFL coaches. Hart didn't go after any NFL coordinators and there were reportedly a few interested in the job. He also didn't wait for the NFL season to end and puruse any fired NFL head coaches. Maybe, he was worried that a Lane Kiffin sceanrio would happen, but that would be rare. Just very odd to me.
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I keep hearing the 'so many rejections' comment. Only 2 coaches were presented with MOU's (Strong and Butch Jones). Only one really turned us down, unless you want to count all of the Gruden stuff.
 
#37
#37
I don't think we could compete with the pay a NFL coach can earn by staying put.
The UT is pretty much broke. I think we're lucky to have CBJ, otherwise we may well have ended up with a small private college, community college coach or a high school coach. No I'm not joking. We're in bad shape.
 
#38
#38
On settling if cbj was so good why didn't ark or barn go after him. If i recall his name did not surface
 
#39
#39
VolsNSkinsFan said:
PSU just won 8 games after their best players transferred out with an NFL OC. Hart panicked
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We can both start cherry picking examples both ways, witness the failure of Charlie Weis at Notre Dame or Bill Callahan at Nebraska.

I believe hiring a college coach was the best move. A highly thought of college coordinator with a reputation as someone who kills it in recruiting would have been fine by me, too.
 
#40
#40
WoodsmanVol said:
I don't think we could compete with the pay a NFL coach can earn by staying put.
The UT is pretty much broke. I think we're lucky to have CBJ, otherwise we may well have ended up with a small private college, community college coach or a high school coach. No I'm not joking. We're in bad shape.
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Blown out of proportion IMO. The boosters would have covered the bill for a big splash hire, if for any other reason to create the illusion that they saved the day. That would allow them to make even more money and give them more recognition in their respective career paths.
 
#41
#41
92volalum said:
On settling if cbj was so good why didn't ark or barn go after him. If i recall his name did not surface
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You know for a fact they didn't?

But to answer your question, I don't think UT or Arkansas considered Malzahn. I am not sure either had Bielema higher than the guy they hired.
 
#42
#42
VolsNSkinsFan said:
lets be honest here, we first called Butch at 10pm on wednesday night after Dave was repeatedly turned down by others, and he was our coach the next morning. "TennesseeTurnedDown" was trending on twitter that day and the media was laughing at us. Its very clear Butch was nowhere near the top of the list. The staff Butch has brought in are basically SEC castaways. A coach who won a BCSNC game as our QB, just said no thanks. Im cheering for the guy, but the odds are stacked against him. PSU made a great move, btw
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I have to find as respectful a way as I can to disagree with you! You're projecting your own insecurities not reflecting those of the admin. And the perception of being a laughing stock is yours also. My disagreement with you cannot be stronger. Tee was interested enough in the position to make a trip here to talk to the coach face to face. What they said I can only guess... I think my guess would be much more insightful than most of you because I know the difference between my own sensitivities and those of others.
 
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#43
#43
VolsNSkinsFan said:
lets be honest here, we first called Butch at 10pm on wednesday night after Dave was repeatedly turned down by others, and he was our coach the next morning. "TennesseeTurnedDown" was trending on twitter that day and the media was laughing at us. Its very clear Butch was nowhere near the top of the list. The staff Butch has brought in are basically SEC castaways. A coach who won a BCSNC game as our QB, just said no thanks. Im cheering for the guy, but the odds are stacked against him. PSU made a great move, btw
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Let's really be honest here. You don't have one shred of proof that UT was "repeatedly turned down by others" or that "Butch was nowhere near the top of the list", do you?

Do you know easy it is to get something completely false accepted as fact when a situation like this occurs on purpose... and even much less accidentally? All that has to happen is for someone with credibility to say "I think....." then someone else to quote the part after "I think".... then someone else to spread it to other sites. Others will add "evidence" to it until you've constructed something marvelous... and completely false.
 
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#44
#44
The biggest "laugh" I saw was the collective laugh of the national sports media at the reactions and behavior of UT fans during the Gruden thing then before and after the Jones hire.

Most of them seemed to believe UT was getting a coach with a great resume who might be the guy to fix things... and thought fan reaction was ridiculous.
 
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#46
#46
JAllen18 said:
Any reason why Hart chose to settle for Butch Jones?
Before I get the negavol not a vfl, support our coach hate. I'm just asking because it's quite odd that after so many rejections from the top college head coaches, one would assume we would look at a few NFL coaches. Hart didn't go after any NFL coordinators and there were reportedly a few interested in the job. He also didn't wait for the NFL season to end and puruse any fired NFL head coaches. Maybe, he was worried that a Lane Kiffin sceanrio would happen, but that would be rare. Just very odd to me.
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like Charlie Weis or that guy that was so good at Texas A&M? Apples and oranges, we got a fine coach. GBO!
 
#47
#47
sjt18 said:
The biggest "laugh" I saw was the collective laugh of the national sports media at the reactions and behavior of UT fans during the Gruden thing then before and after the Jones hire.

Most of them seemed to believe UT was getting a coach with a great resume who might be the guy to fix things... and thought fan reaction was ridiculous.
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I have not seen any of the media say it was a bad hire.
 
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#48
#48
:eek:hmy:Give it a break, we got a coach, lets see what he can do, he said he would get us back to the top, now lets see him back it up, lets give him a chance, wait to at least halftime of the first game before we run him of.
 
#49
#49
He settled for someone who would take the job. Don't get me wrong, I like Butch & think he will be a good coach for the Vols if allowed. Not trying to pee you fans off but, Knoxville is NOT the center of the universe. Outside of Tennessee, the Vols are best known for Buttchugging frat boys & a booger eating suits. The Vols are not a top football school any more, but they will be soon.

Give em hell Butch!
 
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#50
#50
I just gotta say this... How many Head coaches are out there? How many assistants? How can it qualify as punting or drawing a name from a hat that we hired the third or fourth or fifth guy we interviewed? Now, my top choice would have been the coach from TCU. My second would have been Gruden. Beyond that point I didn't have a preference other than whoever it was had a solid coaching background.
 
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