Why is it?

#27
#27
T-TownVol said:
put me in this camp....to me, this is not a "human rights" issue....it is a law enforcement issue
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Exactly.

The state of Arizona has a problem with its legal citizens dying at the hands of illegals. Its their duty to protect their people despite the Feds reluctance. And the legal citizens agree.
 
#29
#29
Vols520 said:
You'll have to ask them. Probabaly any foreigners.

I am not saying something shouldn't be done, just not sure what the right thing is.
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I am absolutely sure that ignoring it, which has been the fed approach, is not the solution.

This law isn't superseding any fed laws. It's simply matching the fed laws and giving the state enforcement agencies the same rights to enforce the rules.
 
#30
#30
BigPapaVol said:
I am absolutely sure that ignoring it, which has been the fed approach, is not the solution.

This law isn't superseding any fed laws. It's simply matching the fed laws and giving the state enforcement agencies the same rights to enforce the rules.
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That makes sense.

i just don't agree with the camp that is up in arms over illegals taking our jobs, nor do I agree with the it's english or gtfo crowd.

Really? I don't see lines of citizens waiting to apply for migrant farm jobs or dishwashing jobs at restaurants. That is a bunch of bs.
 
#31
#31
Vols520 said:
That makes sense.

i just don't agree with the camp that is up in arms over illegals taking our jobs, nor do I agree with the it's english or gtfo crowd.

Really? I don't see lines of citizens waiting to apply for migrant farm jobs or dishwashing jobs at restaurants. That is a bunch of bs.
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are there really a lot of people complaining illegals are taking our jobs? on the other hand there ARE some jobs that would be desirable in other countries that illegals in this country lower the wages so much that americans don't want them. one example is a line cook. but i'd argue the main complaint is illegals ruining our school system and healthcare.
 
#32
#32
Vols520 said:
That makes sense.

i just don't agree with the camp that is up in arms over illegals taking our jobs, nor do I agree with the it's english or gtfo crowd.

Really? I don't see lines of citizens waiting to apply for migrant farm jobs or dishwashing jobs at restaurants. That is a bunch of bs.
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It's about crime and expense, nothing else. The benefit of providing more jobs is simply an added highlight.
 
#33
#33
droski said:
are there really a lot of people complaining illegals are taking our jobs? on the other hand there ARE some jobs that would be desirable in other countries that illegals in this country lower the wages so much that americans don't want them. one example is a line cook. but i'd argue the main complaint is illegals ruining our school system and healthcare.
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Somebody was saying somethign about jobs.
 
#34
#34
droski said:
are there really a lot of people complaining illegals are taking our jobs? on the other hand there ARE some jobs that would be desirable in other countries that illegals in this country lower the wages so much that americans don't want them. one example is a line cook. but i'd argue the main complaint is illegals ruining our school system and healthcare.
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I would argue the main thing ruining our school system is a combination of poor parenting, overworked orncompetent teachers, crowded schools and in some cases lack of funding-or not properly using funding they receive.
 
#36
#36
Vols520 said:
I would argue the main thing ruining our school system is a combination of poor parenting, overworked orncompetent teachers, crowded schools and in some cases lack of funding-or not properly using funding they receive.
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you don't think a lot of these problems improve considerably if we stop spending billions educating and teaching english to millions of non legal and low tax paying citizens.
 
#37
#37
droski said:
you don't think a lot of these problems improve considerably if we stop spending billions educating and teaching english to millions of non legal and low tax paying citizens.
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I don't know enough about the subject to really answer.

Is the answer just having the kids learn absolutely nothing because they can't understand the language?

Or do we ship those kids out of the country?

I don't know the right answer, but I personally don't mind teaching in spanish or whatever language and then gradually learning english. Basically wean them off of their native languages until they can be functional with english. And I can certainly see where people would disagree with that.
 
#38
#38
you ship them out. and what do you think happens to teh english speaking kids when the teachers have to use extra effort to non native speakers? they get ignored and THEIR education suffers. did you go to public school in southern california? that is exactly what happened to me. thankfully my parents were willing to pay for a private high school
 
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#39
#39
droski said:
you ship them out. and what do you think happens to teh english speaking kids when the teachers have to use extra effort to non native speakers? they get ignored and THEIR education suffers. did you go to public school in southern california? that is exactly what happened to me. thankfully my parents were willing to pay for a private high school
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Private Catholic High School. Public Elementary and Middle.

My sister teaches 5th grade in a poor area, and she says either way it's a lose lose.
 
#41
#41
droski said:
you ship them out. and what do you think happens to teh english speaking kids when the teachers have to use extra effort to non native speakers? they get ignored and THEIR education suffers. did you go to public school in southern california? that is exactly what happened to me. thankfully my parents were willing to pay for a private high school
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Also, I think a lot of the kids who don't know english are actually citizens or parents on visa's or something.

Tough situation I am sure.
 
#43
#43
utvolpj said:
or maybe because they will work for what the job should pay. Shouldn't expect $15/hr picking fruit
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I was making a example not defending it. It's the truth like it or not. They're not only straining the job markets, school systems and health care also. There is simply too many of them.
 
#44
#44
droski said:
you don't think a lot of these problems improve considerably if we stop spending billions educating and teaching english to millions of non legal and low tax paying citizens.
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Are we talking about non legals, or legal tax paying citizens? If we are talking about citizens, or others who are legally in this country, then their children are entitled to the same public education as everyone else. The children can't help the fact that their parents speak another language.
 
#46
#46
MG1968 said:
not sure. I keep making the point that "Hispanic" isn't a race at all, but an ethnicity that encompasses at least 3 distinct racial groups.
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What three racial groups??

Maybe you mean three 'ethnic' groups??
 
#47
#47
gsvol said:
What three racial groups??

Maybe you mean three 'ethnic' groups??
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whites, blacks and what could be termed as "Indian".

and no, I didn't mean ethnic groups, "Hispanic" is the ethnicity

Hispanic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

take it for what it's worth, but the above wiki has a nice table that outlines the various race types the comprise the Hispanic world.
 
#48
#48
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Are we talking about non legals, or legal tax paying citizens? If we are talking about citizens, or others who are legally in this country, then their children are entitled to the same public education as everyone else. The children can't help the fact that their parents speak another language.
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I think the law about people being born here to foreign citizens should be changed. They should be born as a foreign citizen, and then they can get citizenship themselves or through their parents, similar to a lot of other countries. People take advantage of it.
 
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