Why Private Health Care doesn't work

[Ed12111]

not make my moral decisions for me

Sigh.

 

[Lexvol]

Not sure how any of this is relevant to health-care. Unless you're arguing a public system is an act of kindness. In which case, by advocating for it I would be leading by example? If you really want to live by that logic though you never have the right to criticize anything or anyone.

As much right as you do to call someone greedy.

 

[volinbham]

the government is "of" the people. if the people were clamoring for a single payer, national HC system it would happen. as it stands, they are not clamoring for it sufficiently to get it legislated.

 

[Lexvol]

the government is "of" the people. if the people were clamoring for a single payer, national HC system it would happen. as it stands, they are not clamoring for it sufficiently to get it legislated.

Proven to be a career killer.

 

[volinbham]

Proven to be a career killer.

best real world data there is...

 

[Ed12111]

As much right as you do to call someone greedy.

You got the wrong guy.

 

[utgibbs]

Breast cancer was relatively common in ancient Greece, in fact they distinguished between malignant and benign tumors.

Fact is we simply don't have the facts to make that claim one way or the other but environment does seem to play a role.

Relatively common will have to be defined a lot more rigorously.

Studies of over 1,000 ancient Egyptian mummies have found a handful of tumors (most benign) when cancer accounts for well over 1 in 4 deaths today. It has risen dramatically in children as well, suggesting it's not just because of longer lifespans enjoyed in the modern world.

We begin to get into politics even here. Science, if harnessed for human needs rather than the needs of Capital is capable of so much. Driven by Capital however, it can create cancer, lead burdens, a Sixth Great Extinction, and geo-engineer the atmosphere to endanger us all.

 

[Lexvol]

You got the wrong guy.

Switcharoo?

 

[Ed12111]

the government is "of" the people. if the people were clamoring for a single payer, national HC system it would happen. as it stands, they are not clamoring for it sufficiently to get it legislated.

And? I don't think anyone said otherwise. Except for Beechervol.

 

[Ed12111]

Switcharoo?

No, you just read wrong. You're not the first in this thread.

 

[utgibbs]

the government is "of" the people. if the people were clamoring for a single payer, national HC system it would happen. as it stands, they are not clamoring for it sufficiently to get it legislated.

Wrong, as I have demonstrated before (sigh).

A supermajority of Americans favor a single-payer system. A supermajority believe the current system is broken. They have been trying since the first year of Clinton to radically alter the system.

We begin to prove my points about the nature of authentic democracy....

 

[BearCat204]

Relatively common will have to be defined a lot more rigorously.

Studies of over 1,000 ancient Egyptian mummies have found a handful of tumors (most benign) when cancer accounts for well over 1 in 4 deaths today.

So your sample group of people from earlier is "over 1,000" but you take in account millions with the 1 in 4? Makes sense to me

 

[Ed12111]

Wrong, as I have demonstrated before (sigh).

A supermajority of Americans favor a single-payer system. A supermajority believe the current system is broken. They have been trying since the first year of Clinton to radically alter the system.

We begin to prove my points about the nature of authentic democracy....

This guy too I guess. Do you have any polls about the single-payer? I haven't seen that.

 

[hndog609]

Wrong, as I have demonstrated before (sigh).

A supermajority of Americans favor a single-payer system. A supermajority believe the current system is broken.

I'm not at all certain believing what we have could be better is a positive affirmation for wanting single payer. That seems a leap.

 

[BeecherVol]

I don't understand you, or your posts. The debate is what you would like government to do. Having the government decide what's moral makes no sense.

This thread is starting to get derailed.

The debate is not what should they do, but what will they do.

You put a whole lot of faith in politicians doing whats in your best interest. Even down to your health.

 

[volinbham]

Wrong, as I have demonstrated before (sigh).

A supermajority of Americans favor a single-payer system. A supermajority believe the current system is broken. They have been trying since the first year of Clinton to radically alter the system.

We begin to prove my points about the nature of authentic democracy....

I posted evidence in another thread that a supermajority is against it.

 

[utgibbs]

So your sample group of people from earlier is "over 1,000" but you take in account millions with the 1 in 4? Makes sense to me

It absolutely does to statisticians.

I'm not sure how many old, dead people we have around to study in detail. I suppose your data is from reports authored by the ancient Greek "doctors."

Hmmmmmm.

 

[BearCat204]

It absolutely does to statisticians.

I'm not sure how many old, dead people we have around to study in detail. I suppose your data is from reports authored by the ancient Greek "doctors."

Hmmmmmm.

So since we dont have the data availible, lets just call it a day and make the claim that cancer is only a modern civilization disease.

 

[Ed12111]

The debate is not what should they do, but what will they do.

You put a whole lot of faith in politicians doing whats in your best interest. Even down to your health.

Hopefully they will do what we decide they should do. If you believe the two are seperate, I'm not sure how this debate would be about they will do as that would be guesswork.

 

[utgibbs]

I posted evidence in another thread that a supermajority is against it.

No, you didn't.

You showed a Gallup poll where, after intense marketing against the Obama plan, the split was 50 / 50.

I then proceeded to show you the data on the effectiveness of the marketing, from the same Gallup survey.

Take the same poll in the summer 2011, with no Obamacare in the news, and the results would return to their normal levels, which I demonstrated with over a decade of data taken from numerous sources.

 

[volinbham]

It absolutely does to statisticians.

.

Depends entirely on how the sample was chosen. If they are looking a mummified remains (intentionally mummified) then clearly these people did not live the same lifestyle (including nutrition) as the general population.

A random sample can have statistically power to draw inferences about a larger population. A non-random sample (as it sounds like this one is) has no statistical inference power beyond that sample - that is something virtually all statisticians agree upon.

Regardless, the whole notion is irrelevant if we are looking at health outcomes for health problems people currently face. There are several European countries with higher cancer incidence rates (regardless of how they view capitalism). All have lower survival rates than the U.S.

 

[utgibbs]

So since we dont have the data availible, lets just call it a day and make the claim that cancer is only a modern civilization disease.

But I did describe to you the data. A good study with a huge sample size demonstrated conclusively cancer was aberration in this population.

Moreover, the study looked at the "texts" of cancer in ancient Egypt ascribing most of the descriptions to leprosy and varicose veins.

 

[BeecherVol]

Hopefully they will do what we decide they should do. If you believe the two are seperate, I'm not sure how this debate would be about they will do as that would be guesswork.

Hopefully?

I would hope you would have a little more conviction.

 

[volinbham]

No, you didn't.

You showed a Gallup poll where, after intense marketing against the Obama plan, the split was 50 / 50.

I then proceeded to show you the data on the effectiveness of the marketing, from the same Gallup survey.

Take the same poll in the summer 2011, with no Obamacare in the news, and the results would return to their normal levels, which I demonstrated with over a decade of data taken from numerous sources.

Showed another poll separate from Gallup.

Also, you are making an assumption that current views are not "normal" since they don't match your world view.

 

[droski]

You assume I'm not rich. And the food bank quip is stupid. I would come down against violence too I may even go so far as to voting for laws that discourage it. That said, I don't spend my entire life at a battered womans shelter.

i know you aren't rich.

you said as a human it is your duty to help those less fortunate. all i'm asking is what you yourself are doing