Why Private Health Care doesn't work

#252
#252
Ed12111 said:
You could probably cherry-pick a few, but let's be honest in most we are not. When we should be ahead in almost all of them due to our vast wealth. Not to mention, according to you guys using a vastly superior system.
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Umm cancer is the second leading cause of death. Not exactly cherry picking.

Currently look at cardiac survival rates (#1 cause) and I bet we rank at the top (or near it) there too.
 
#253
#253
Ed12111 said:
I think you think you're making a point. Are you asking if the United States should literally absorb the entire world?
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I believe he's asking whether the US has a responsibility to treat anyone within our borders who requests care
 
#254
#254
Ed12111 said:
I think you think you're making a point. Are you asking if the United States should literally absorb the entire world?
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Should we include others that can't get better where they are, where ever that is?

Should they be allowed to come here for healthcare?
 
#255
#255
volinbham said:
Interesting study on mortality rates in US and HC system

http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1012&context=psc_working_papers
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Still cherry-picking. Don't you see the inherent flaw in your point. If the United States system is so vastly superior( to go along with our better technology and money) shouldn't a few cherry-picked articles trying to explain away our problems be unnecessary? I mean it's a great real world experiment, we already have several advantages add that to the one thing we do different from the rest of the wealthy nations. If our system is better it should be extremely evident.
 
#257
#257
I remember a conversation that I had with a lady that was lamenting the fact that she didn't live in a commune. She dreamed about it in college, but it never came to fruition. Of course by now she was married, drove a $30,000 car and lived in a $500,000 house. She had plenty to give away, but in the end all she did was ***** about how greedy everybody else was. This sums up most every real liberal I know.

If they would pool their resources they could open clinics and hospitals all over the country, but they remain more concerned about what the mega churches and the greedy people that make more than they do are doing.
 
#258
#258
BeecherVol said:
Should we include others that can't get better where they are, where ever that is?

Should they be allowed to come here for healthcare?
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I believe that all people(and by extent governments) should have a natural moral want to help the less fortunate. Of course, theres only so much we can do. I hope no one disagrees with that.
 
#259
#259
BearCat204 said:
Link?
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Despite "austerity measures" (read: Never have so many given so much to so few) in the UK, David Cameron has promised the NHS is "untouchable" and will be expanded.

Despite Herculean efforts by the powers that be, countries with an NHS will not give them up.
 
#261
#261
Lexvol said:
I remember a conversation that I had with a lady that was lamenting the fact that she didn't live in a commune. She dreamed about it in college, but it never came to fruition. Of course by now she was married, drove a $30,000 car and lived in a $500,000 house. She had plenty to give away, but in the end all she did was ***** about how greedy everybody else was. This sums up most every real liberal I know.

If they would pool their resources they could open clinics and hospitals all over the country, but they remain more concerned about what the mega churches and the greedy people that make more than they do are doing.
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I would hesitate to assign the "liberal" tag to this lady, although I have no doubt she would assign it to herself.

I think your first paragraph contains very valid observations. Although being a "Democrat" in America is to be far to the Right of center, your observations are not far wrong, and describe a lot of so-called American liberals.

However, the typical Republican stereotype will read just as badly.

The Left truly doesn't exist in America.
 
#262
#262
Lexvol said:
I remember a conversation that I had with a lady that was lamenting the fact that she didn't live in a commune. She dreamed about it in college, but it never came to fruition. Of course by now she was married, drove a $30,000 car and lived in a $500,000 house. She had plenty to give away, but in the end all she did was ***** about how greedy everybody else was. This sums up most every real liberal I know.

If they would pool their resources they could open clinics and hospitals all over the country, but they remain more concerned about what the mega churches and the greedy people that make more than they do are doing.
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That is insanely ridiculous. I could say the same about any group of people. What's the point anyway. Not all liberals live up to a mother--Theresa like kindness, so I'm excused for being an *******? Not calling you an *******, but that seems to be the point you're making. Using that logic you'd have a field day with the religious(everyone really).
 
#263
#263
BearCat204 said:
Cancer is a disease of modern civilization.
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The first documented case of cancer was in 1500 BC[/QUOTE]

Irrelevant. Cancer was an aberration until industrial society. In pre-industrial societies, it still is an aberration.
 
#264
#264
Ed12111 said:
That is insanely ridiculous. I could say the same about any group of people. What's the point anyway. Not all liberals live up to a mother--Theresa like kindness, so I'm excused for being an *******? Not calling you an *******, but that seems to be the point you're making. Using that logic you'd have a field day with the religious(everyone really).
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So lead by example. Give your discretionary income away and stop worrying about what other people are doing with their money. Your imposition of values in taking what belongs to someone else is really no different than imposing religuous values.
 
#265
#265
Ed12111 said:
I believe that all people(and by extent governments) should have a natural moral want to help the less fortunate. Of course, theres only so much we can do. I hope no one disagrees with that.
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"Moral want to" is irrelevant when it comes to the ability to provide it.

I don't rely on the government to be moral, or to decide for me whats moral.
 
#266
#266
utgibbs said:
The first documented case of cancer was in 1500 BC
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Irrelevant. Cancer was an aberration until industrial society. In pre-industrial societies, it still is an aberration.[/QUOTE]


Doesnt have anything to do with the fact that in the "pre-industrial society" they knew nothing about it and now we have the technology to detect it better and the research to know more about it.
 
#267
#267
Lexvol said:
So lead by example. Give your discretionary income away and stop worrying about what other people are doing with their money. Your imposition of values in taking what belongs to someone else is really no different than imposing religuous values.
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Not sure how any of this is relevant to health-care. Unless you're arguing a public system is an act of kindness. In which case, by advocating for it I would be leading by example? If you really want to live by that logic though you never have the right to criticize anything or anyone.
 
#268
#268
utgibbs said:
Irrelevant. Cancer was an aberration until industrial society. In pre-industrial societies, it still is an aberration.
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Oh the good old days; scurvy, TB, the plague, leporsy, ricketts, polio, any number of deadly infections.
 
#269
#269
Ed12111 said:
I believe that all people(and by extent governments) should have a natural moral want to help the less fortunate. Of course, theres only so much we can do. I hope no one disagrees with that.
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so i assume you spend all of your free time at food banks? or it just the rich you expect to pay for this? does it matter to you if some of the less fortunate are less fortunate because they are lazy?
 
#270
#270
BearCat204 said:
Doesnt have anything to do with the fact that in the "pre-industrial society" they knew nothing about it and now we have the technology to detect it better and the research to know more about it.
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So when Gibbs refers to the "real world" he's talking pre-1800. Now things are making more sense.
 
#271
#271
utgibbs said:
Irrelevant. Cancer was an aberration until industrial society. In pre-industrial societies, it still is an aberration.
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Breast cancer was relatively common in ancient Greece, in fact they distinguished between malignant and benign tumors.

Fact is we simply don't have the facts to make that claim one way or the other but environment does seem to play a role.
 
#272
#272
BeecherVol said:
"Moral want to" is irrelevant when it comes to the ability to provide it.

I don't rely on the government to be moral, or to decide for me whats moral.
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I don't understand you, or your posts. The debate is what you would like government to do. Having the government decide what's moral makes no sense.

This thread is starting to get derailed.
 
#273
#273
BearCat204 said:
Doesnt have anything to do with the fact that in the "pre-industrial society" they knew nothing about it and now we have the technology to detect it better and the research to know more about it.
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nope. Detection has nothing to do with cancer rates
 
#274
#274
Ed12111 said:
I don't understand you, or your posts. The debate is what you would like government to do. Having the government decide what's moral makes no sense.

This thread is starting to get derailed.
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not make my moral decisions for me
 
#275
#275
droski said:
so i assume you spend all of your free time at food banks? or it just the rich you expect to pay for this? does it matter to you if some of the less fortunate are less fortunate because they are lazy?
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You assume I'm not rich. And the food bank quip is stupid. I would come down against violence too I may even go so far as to voting for laws that discourage it. That said, I don't spend my entire life at a battered womans shelter.
 
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