Why Reality Blows Up Anti-Abortion Rhetoric

[Vol8188]

I see a lot of dudes on this board outraged at a woman making a decision about her body but no one seems to care about the multiple children murdered in cold blood at school this week???? What gives??

What are you talking about? We have a large thread on that. I think almost everyone in this thread who has expressed strong views has been in that thread too. WTH are you talking about?

 

[Vol8188]

I certainly have no problem with a woman choosing to abort at 20 weeks. Earlier would have been better but later would have been worse. The worst of all would be to unnecessarily bring yet another unwanted human into the world.
The best of all scenarios, eliminate unwanted conception.....that's where we need to increase our focus.

I can agree with most of that. Our main difference if I'd prefer that number to be a few weeks before 20.

 

[Vol8188]

Nah, I know it'll just turn in to "don't touch muh guns."

Its just ironic yall care so much about abortion but multiple school shootings this week can't get a single thread. Sign of the times I guess.

Are you also under the false notion that we have an increase in school shootings in this country? That's been debunked really well.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Are you also under the false notion that we have an increase in school shootings in this country? That's been debunked really well.

Nope. We've always had too many school shootings. And nothing ever gets done because the right is too sensitive about their gun laws. They just ignore it. Just like on this board.

It's okay....thoughts and prayers. I'm sure that comforts the parents of the murdered kids when they sleep at night.

 

[Vol8188]

Nope. We've always had too many school shootings. And nothing ever gets done because the right is too sensitive about their gun laws. They just ignore it. Just like on this board.

It's okay....thoughts and prayers. I'm sure that comforts the parents of the murdered kids when they sleep at night.

Do they ignore it or do they just not endorse your one and only idea?

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Do they ignore it or do they just not endorse your one and only idea?

They're desensitized. They care more about an unborn fetus than they do a middle or high schooler. School shootings are just an accepted part of life now. There's no solutions because "muh gunssszzz!!!!"

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Damn almost 20 minutes....most crickets I've heard on this board

 

[Vol8188]

They're desensitized. They care more about an unborn fetus than they do a middle or high schooler. School shootings are just an accepted part of life now. There's no solutions because "muh gunssszzz!!!!"

School shootings are down. There’s also a big issue with over reporting. NPR did a great article about “the school shootings that weren’t”. And if you go to the thread on this, you’ll find multiple solutions brought up.

But you have no interest in that. You’re just here to virtue signal

 

[DC_Vol]

I see a lot of dudes on this board outraged at a woman making a decision about her body but no one seems to care about the multiple children murdered in cold blood at school this week???? What gives??

I’m all for making murders inside schools illegal, too.

 

[joevol33]

As a pro-choicer, I listen to the rhetoric of anti-abortionists with great interest. I respect their tenet that having an abortion is akin to 'murder', but naturally I don't agree with it. I also respect their tenet that having an abortion is 'wrong', and agree that ending a life via abortion is very sad and absolutely a last resort.

However, I also recognize that from a pragmatic standpoint, their vision of an "abortion-free America" is simply short-sighted and wholly unworkable. Why?

Most of the problems with the anti-abortion view stem from their position that a human fetus is, in fact, a human being with the same inalienable right to life that you and I have as living, birthed people. The position is that both a fetus IN THE BODY and a delivered baby OUT OF THE BODY both have the right to life, and that their lives should not be ended by the mothers. Unfortunately, here's where the train falls off the tracks...

(1) If a fetus and a (birthed) baby have equal rights, then by definition, a fetus has all the legal rights of a birthed baby;

(2) These rights include - amongst other guaranteed rights to all Americans - the right to citizenship and to a social security number. As such, once a mother is determined to be pregnant, the fetus is now a citizen and must immediately be issued a SSN by the government;

(3) Under the Affordable Care Act, the fetus is now also required to have health insurance, so parents must enroll the fetus upon determination of pregnancy. Also, the fetus is now a dependent, and can be deducted when filing income taxes;

(4) Further, within our legal system, all citizens have the right to due process and a fair trial when crimes have allegedly occurred. Moreover, it's illegal to incarcerate an American citizen without due process. Consequently, if the mother of a fetus commits a crime and is found guilty, it's illegal for the citizen fetus to be incarcerated in any institution - given the obvious presumption that the fetus did not, and could not - commit a crime. Net result: No pregnant women can be legally held in any institution;

(5) As no pregnant women can be incarcerated with an innocent fetus inside the mother, it stands to reason that any rational woman facing potential incarceration will, therefore, become pregnant to avoid incarceration;

(6) Similarly, no legal citizen of the United States can be deported by the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Therefore, no fetus conceived within the United States can legally be deported, as that fetus has all the rights of other 'normal' citizens. End result: No illegal immigrants who are pregnant in the US can be deported. See also (5) above;

(7) Further, the loss of any fetus for any reason that includes 'malignant behavior' by a mother shall be considered from a legal standpoint as manslaughter or potentially murder. For example, a mother gets drunk, wrecks her car while driving, and loses her fetus to stillbirth from injuries sustained in the accident. Given the equal legal rights of the fetus, the state would have to proceed with prosecution of the mother on manslaughter charges or murder if the act was premeditated. Regardless, the mother would face significant incarceration equivalent to the manslaughter/murder of a birthed human.

These are just some of the absurd realities awaiting an America where we consider fetuses to have the same rights as birthed humans. Our country is based on a clear system of inalienable rights to all citizens. Exceptions are not made. Period.

Having said that, I believe the better route for anti-abortionists is as follows: Volunteer to adopt an unwanted baby. If, as some anti-abortionists claim, there are legions of like-minded folks in our nation who don't want another single fetus aborted, then set up a National Adoption System. Have everyone sign up to adopt a fetus that would otherwise be aborted.

Until when and if this ever happens (it won't), then feel free to live and breathe by Roe v. Wade and the law of the land that 60% of the American public supports.

Here's the issue for me. First, I agree completely about the adoption, and know many who would. The problem is the cost, it shouldn't be a ridiculous amount if they really wanted people to adopt. Second, if we can recognize the egg of certain animals as life, and punish destroying said eggs by federal prison time, then why does recognizing a fetus as life have to be so complicated?

 

[Vol8188]

Here's the issue for me. First, I agree completely about the adoption, and know many who would. The problem is the cost, it shouldn't be a ridiculous amount if they really wanted people to adopt. Second, if we can recognize the egg of certain animals as life, and punish destroying said eggs by federal prison time, then why does recognizing a fetus as life have to be so complicated?

Foster. It’s cheaper and has a better return policy

 

[Ashevolle]

No but there are clinics set up to murder babies. I wonder what the blowback would be if there were dog and cat abortion clinics? I suspect there would be massive outrage.

Considering we slaughter billions of animals every year, I suspect there would be zero outrage.

 

[Vol8188]

They're desensitized. They care more about an unborn fetus than they do a middle or high schooler. School shootings are just an accepted part of life now. There's no solutions because "muh gunssszzz!!!!"

It’s odd to think guns are the problem. Black citizens disproportionately live in inner cities with the strictest gun laws, they’re disproportionately more like to be legally restricted from owning firearms due to increased rates of felony arrests, and yet they commit the majority of all murders in this country while only making up 13% of the population.

Can you explain how that works? If the issue is guns, why is the white homicide rate so low? Do white people not have guns?

 

[Vol8188]

how do you guys think the court will rule?

I think we will see 5-4 in favor of Roe v Wade/Planned parenthood Vs Casey. Your 3 liberals, Roberts, and Brett K will be your 5.

I think the best case we can hope for is they slightly erode it and move the date back to 16 or 15 weeks or so.

 

[hog88]

how do you guys think the court will rule?

I think we will see 5-4 in favor of Roe v Wade/Planned parenthood Vs Casey. Your 3 liberals, Roberts, and Brett K will be your 5.

I think the best case we can hope for is they slightly erode it and move the date back to 16 or 15 weeks or so.

I'd bet you are right. Rarely do those black robed charlatans reverse precedent.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I see a lot of dudes on this board outraged at a woman making a decision about her body but no one seems to care about the multiple children murdered in cold blood at school this week???? What gives??

Who doesn’t care about them? A crazy kid whom they bullied snapped and shot some of them. Very sad

 

[Rickyvol77]

Nah, I know it'll just turn in to "don't touch muh guns."

Its just ironic yall care so much about abortion but multiple school shootings this week can't get a single thread. Sign of the times I guess.

Well one is a topic before the Supreme Court and one is simply a crime that occurs from time to time

 

[Rickyvol77]

Nope. We've always had too many school shootings. And nothing ever gets done because the right is too sensitive about their gun laws. They just ignore it. Just like on this board.

It's okay....thoughts and prayers. I'm sure that comforts the parents of the murdered kids when they sleep at night.

Because guns aren’t the actual issue. As usual

 

[n_huffhines]

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

It’s odd to think guns are the problem. Black citizens disproportionately live in inner cities with the strictest gun laws, they’re disproportionately more like to be legally restricted from owning firearms due to increased rates of felony arrests, and yet they commit the majority of all murders in this country while only making up 13% of the population.

Can you explain how that works? If the issue is guns, why is the white homicide rate so low? Do white people not have guns?

Wtf does that have to do with school shootings? That's just a deflection and classic whataboutism.

 

[Vol8188]

Wtf does that have to do with school shootings? That's just a deflection and classic whataboutism.

Not at all. School shootings are down. They’ve never been as high as the left claims. They’re not a major issue in the US.

If school shootings were as prevalent as the left claims, it would show up in an increased homicide rate. Yet the white rate is equal to that of Europe.

Now is our overall homicide rate higher than Europe? Yes. But that’s because the black homicide rate is astronomically high.

Your claim is that both school shootings and homicides in general are due to guns. Yet the data doesn’t suggest that at all.

 

[Vol8188]

Wtf does that have to do with school shootings? That's just a deflection and classic whataboutism.

How’s it a what aboutism to point out statistical facts that show guns are not the issue, when I’m responding to you, the guy claiming guns are the issue?

 

[Vol8188]

View attachment 417124

You don’t believe life begins at conception? Do you not science?

 

[Vol8188]

Anyone who has had even a middle school science class should know and understand that life does begin at conception.

You can proclaim that life isn’t developed to a level worthy of legal protections. But you can’t argue it’s not life without completely embarrassing yourself

 

[BowlBrother85]

Kill a baby animal like a puppy or kitten and Democrats will want you strung up and beaten to death. Kill a baby and it’s oh Roe v Wade which 60% support so laws.

This is a false equivalency, which represents a failure to understand why some people are pro choice. As someone who is pro choice, I believe that life begins at birth; not conception. So unless you are talking abortions provided to dogs and cats, you are not addressing the issue of abortion from a pro choice perspective.