Why Reality Blows Up Anti-Abortion Rhetoric

#252
#252
TheDeeble said:
Left/Right should just say we're going to table any further debate about abortion or guns for 20 or so years and focus on the important things.
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Disagree. The less the government accomplishes, the better.
 
#253
#253
Vol8188 said:
Disagree. The less the government accomplishes, the better.
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But then nothing is being accomplished on abortion or guns. And since everybody knows nothing will change on their sacred cow maybe everyone will hate everyone else a little less.
 
#255
#255
Vol8188 said:
I'm having a hard time understanding why the left sees this as such a terrible thing. The worst case scenario is a woman may have to drive to another state to receive care.
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"receive care"

Why should anyone, man or woman have to be burdened with driving to another state to receive care?

In those terms, wouldn't it be an unnecessary inconvenience if you had had to travel to another state to see your doctor for personal medical reasons, even though there was licensed, trained and accepting new patients physician down the road?
 
#256
#256
Septic said:
"receive care"

Why should anyone, man or woman have to be burdened with driving to another state to receive care?

In those terms, wouldn't it be an unnecessary inconvenience if you had had to travel to another state to see your doctor for personal medical reasons, even though there was licensed, trained and accepting new patients physician down the road?
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Depends on the procedure you want. I can’t get any procedure I’d like here. Plenty of people travel for things. If it’s that big of an issue, either drive or move.

Why’s that a problem?

Do you not believe there should be a limit on non medically necessary abortions?
 
#257
#257
Vol8188 said:
Depends on the procedure you want. I can’t get any procedure I’d like here. Plenty of people travel for things. If it’s that big of an issue, either drive or move.

Why’s that a problem?

Do you not believe there should be a limit on non medically necessary abortions?
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Oh. I see, so you get to decide what private medical procedure is or isn't an acceptable enough burden to have to travel out of state?

Well, I guess as long as your morality is more important that private medical decisions between a physician and a patient - we've just regressed back to the middle ages. Perhaps you cold give me a list of what's important enough to you for local procedures - that we should all adhere to.

Being coy and filling a reply with personal anecdotes and non sequiturs is bush league. You are capable of better.

Yes, I've stated previously that the general consensus of 24 weeks (viability outside of the womb) would be an area where I'd be comfortable with the cutoff.
 
#259
#259
Septic said:
Oh. I see, so you get to decide what private medical procedure is or isn't an acceptable enough burden to have to travel out of state?

Well, I guess as long as your morality is more important that private medical decisions between a physician and a patient - we've just regressed back to the middle ages. Perhaps you cold give me a list of what's important enough to you for local procedures - that we should all adhere to.

Being coy and filling a reply with personal anecdotes and non sequiturs is bush league. You are capable of better.

Yes, I've stated previously that the general consensus of 24 weeks (viability outside of the womb) would be an area where I'd be comfortable with the cutoff.
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Allowing a 9 month abortion seems more like the middle ages than having doctors abide by laws?

I never claimed I get to decide. Legislators decide. No different than any other medical procedure.

How am I being coy and what non-sequitur?

So you agree a woman who wants this procedure after 24 weeks would have to travel elsewhere, yet you're pretending your stance is a high ground over mine? How?
 
#260
#260
Vol8188 said:
Allowing a 9 month abortion seems more like the middle ages than having doctors abide by laws?
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Who is asking for full term abortions? Using fringe elements that aren't rooted in reality are a terrible place to plant your flag.

Vol8188 said:
I never claimed I get to decide. Legislators decide. No different than any other medical procedure.
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You said it "depends on the procedure", which implies you or someone gets to decide. Legislators don't get to decide if I need a root canal or an appendectomy. But now you're OK with lawyers and legislators deciding on private medical decisions?! LOL, Ok.

Vol8188 said:
How am I being coy and what non-sequitur?
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You said, "I can’t get any procedure I’d like here. Plenty of people travel for things. If it’s that big of an issue, either drive or move."

Vol8188 said:
So you agree a woman who wants this procedure after 24 weeks would have to travel elsewhere, yet you're pretending your stance is a high ground over mine? How?
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No, actually I agree with the generally accepted law in most places where abortions after 24 weeks shouldn't be allowed at all. Before that however, it shouldn't be unnecessarily burdensome for a woman to "receive care."
 
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#261
#261
Septic said:
Who is asking for full term abortions? Using fringe elements that aren't rooted in reality are a terrible place to plant your flag.

You said it "depends on the procedure", which implies you or someone gets to decide. Legislators don't get to decide if I need a root canal or an adenectomy. But now you're OK with lawyers and legislators deciding on private medical decisions?! LOL, Ok.

You said, "I can’t get any procedure I’d like here. Plenty of people travel for things. If it’s that big of an issue, either drive or move."

No, actually I agree with the generally accepted law in most places where abortions after 24 weeks shouldn't be allowed at all. Before that however, it shouldn't be unnecessarily burdensome for a woman to "receive care."
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The point is to establish if you believe in limits on abortions at all. Some in this thread and discussion do not. So if you do, then your problem is that some states will set that limit at different points? Idk why that’s such an issue?

Legislators decide the scope of practice. So what different medical providers can and cannot do in your state is not decided by the provider but rather by the state. This is no different.

Yes, some procedures you can’t get in some areas? Are you claiming that’s not true?

why 24 vs any other number? I’m not convinced 12 or 16 is that intrusive nor that burdensome
 
#262
#262
Vol8188 said:
The point is to establish if you believe in limits on abortions at all. Some in this thread and discussion do not. So if you do, then your problem is that some states will set that limit at different points? Idk why that’s such an issue?
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Please limit your argument points to our discussion, I'm not answering or arguing for anyone other than myself. No reasonable person is pursuing abortion rights up to 9 months. You're tilting at windmills.

Vol8188 said:
Legislators decide the scope of practice. So what different medical providers can and cannot do in your state is not decided by the provider but rather by the state. This is no different.
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Yes it is. You appear to be advocating that a proven safe and effective procedure should not be offered without burden and shrugging it off because "they can travel to another state", it's a cop out that dodges the point of denying a womans ability to "receive care" (your words) without undue burden.

Vol8188 said:
Yes, some procedures you can’t get in some areas? Are you claiming that’s not true?
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another dodge. Criminalizing a physicians ability to render safe and effective care is distinctly different from a "procedure not being available in some area."

Vol8188 said:
why 24 vs any other number? I’m not convinced 12 or 16 is that intrusive nor that burdensome
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As I've overtly stated, 24 weeks is the generally accepted average where the medical community believes a fetus will be viable outside of the womb.


I can't help but shake my head in disbelief that the same people who want smaller government with less regulation have no problem with more legislation so longs as it coincides with their personal wants.
 
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#263
#263
A fetus more closely meets the definition of a parasite than a human being. No one should be forced to provide sustenance to a bloodsucking parasite.
 
#266
#266
1638486687188.png
20 week old fetus

“Many of your baby's taste buds can now transmit taste signals to his brain, and he's swallowing molecules of the food you eat that have passed through your blood into your amniotic fluid. Researchers aren't sure if he can taste these molecules, but some research indicates that what you eat during pregnancy can influence the foods your baby will prefer later.”

Taste buds are forming. And some of the posters on here would have no issues with abortion at 20 weeks because “it’s not my place”

Cowardly! You are a coward!

Report me. I don’t care. Just know you are a coward!
 
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#267
#267
VOLS INC. said:
View attachment 416954
20 week old fetus

“Many of your baby's taste buds can now transmit taste signals to his brain, and he's swallowing molecules of the food you eat that have passed through your blood into your amniotic fluid. Researchers aren't sure if he can taste these molecules, but some research indicates that what you eat during pregnancy can influence the foods your baby will prefer later.”

Taste buds are forming. And some of the posters on here would have no issues with abortion at 20 weeks because “it’s not my place”

Cowardly! You are a coward!

Report me. I don’t care. Just know you are a coward!
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I gotta say there is a reason these "procedures" are taken down from SM. Congress and the SCOTUS should review the videos in front of the nation. Disgusting and barbaric. Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, my ass.
 
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#268
#268
Current conservative thought process:

The government has the right to tell a woman to carry a fetus to full term and give birth.

The government does not have the right to tell a woman to get a vaccine.

Little lack of consistency there.
 
#269
#269
WBO said:
Current conservative thought process:

The government has the right to tell a woman to carry a fetus to full term and give birth.

The government does not have the right to tell a woman to get a vaccine.

Little lack of consistency there.
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lol
 
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#270
#270
WBO said:
Current conservative thought process:

The government has the right to tell a woman to carry a fetus to full term and give birth.

The government does not have the right to tell a woman to get a vaccine.

Little lack of consistency there.
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Current liberal thought process.

The government has a right to tell anyone to get a vaccine.

With abortion my body my choice

Fact is there is a third party involved and the crux of the matter.
 
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#271
#271
Septic said:
Please limit your argument points to our discussion, I'm not answering or arguing for anyone other than myself. No reasonable person is pursuing abortion rights up to 9 months. You're tilting at windmills.

Yes it is. You appear to be advocating that a proven safe and effective procedure should not be offered without burden and shrugging it off because "they can travel to another state", it's a cop out that dodges the point of denying a womans ability to "receive care" (your words) without undue burden.

another dodge. Criminalizing a physicians ability to render safe and effective care is distinctly different from a "procedure not being available in some area."

As I've overtly stated, 24 weeks is the generally accepted average where the medical community believes a fetus will be viable outside of the womb.


I can't help but shake my head in disbelief that the same people who want smaller government with less regulation have no problem with more legislation so longs as it coincides with their personal wants.
Click to expand...

I've not asked you to argue on behalf of anyone else. It was simply to clarify that you did believe in limits. Once again, not every does.

No I'm not arguing it's safe and effective nor that it should be without burden.

I'm not dodging at all. There's plenty of procedures I'd argue are safer than abortions that are not available everywhere. What do you think I'm dodging, because I'll gladly answer anything?

The small government argument is ignorant. No one on the right is arguing for a government so small that it doesn't have regulations against murder. You may disagree that it's murder, but obviously that's how the right sees it. So to proclaim it's an invasive form of big government is ignorant.

Viability of a fetus is relative to technological advances. Would you accept a number of less than 24 weeks as medical advances increase the likelihood of survival of a less developed fetus?
 
#272
#272
I see a lot of dudes on this board outraged at a woman making a decision about her body but no one seems to care about the multiple children murdered in cold blood at school this week???? What gives??
 
#275
#275
VOLS INC. said:
View attachment 416954
20 week old fetus

“Many of your baby's taste buds can now transmit taste signals to his brain, and he's swallowing molecules of the food you eat that have passed through your blood into your amniotic fluid. Researchers aren't sure if he can taste these molecules, but some research indicates that what you eat during pregnancy can influence the foods your baby will prefer later.”

Taste buds are forming. And some of the posters on here would have no issues with abortion at 20 weeks because “it’s not my place”

Cowardly! You are a coward!

Report me. I don’t care. Just know you are a coward!
Click to expand...
I certainly have no problem with a woman choosing to abort at 20 weeks. Earlier would have been better but later would have been worse. The worst of all would be to unnecessarily bring yet another unwanted human into the world.
The best of all scenarios, eliminate unwanted conception.....that's where we need to increase our focus.
 
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