Why Reality Blows Up Anti-Abortion Rhetoric

#377
#377
VOLS INC. said:
View attachment 416954
20 week old fetus

“Many of your baby's taste buds can now transmit taste signals to his brain, and he's swallowing molecules of the food you eat that have passed through your blood into your amniotic fluid. Researchers aren't sure if he can taste these molecules, but some research indicates that what you eat during pregnancy can influence the foods your baby will prefer later.”

Taste buds are forming. And some of the posters on here would have no issues with abortion at 20 weeks because “it’s not my place”

Cowardly! You are a coward!

Report me. I don’t care. Just know you are a coward!
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Ask any woman who has had a baby how their favorite spicy food worked out during the pregnancy. Most will tell you the baby immediately turned into an Olympic gymnast after they ate it.
 
#378
#378
WBO said:
Current conservative thought process:

The government has the right to tell a woman to carry a fetus to full term and give birth.
The government has the right to tell a woman you can’t murder a baby after a specific time in the initial growth cycle of that baby.

The government does not have the right to tell anyone to get a vaccine.

Little lack of consistency there.
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Clarified that for you.
 
#379
#379
Baby’s start to be felt moving around anytime between 13-22 weeks, with first time pregnancies usually reporting it towards the latter of that timeframe. My theory on that is after the first time you more quickly recognize what you’re feeling during additional pregnancies.

It’s always interesting watching those that don’t give birth argue about the tiny human life growing inside those who are actually carrying that life. 🤔
 
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#380
#380
utvolpj said:
Your argument really loses steam when you use terms like this. I hope you are never put in a position where it's a choice you have to make because it's not as cut and dry as you like to imply
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You continue to show a massive level of ignorance on this subject. The fact that you cannot admit that it’s murder shows how idiotic you are. But hey continue your liberal bootlicking and feeding other idiots who like your posts.
 
#381
#381
There aren't many things I hate more than the stupid abortion debate

It will never be banned ever!

It is completely futile, unfair to individual rights, government overreach and more lovely division and chaos in our fractured country.

Not everyone has the same morals about this issue. They never will. Most people get abortions as soon as possible. There is hardly a difference between that and when your jacking at the toilet. Literally. If it's not viable and barely formed, its a whole lot closer to a sperm cell than an actual child. It's a cluster of potential. With your "heartbeat" argument why stop there? Why does it have to have a heartbeat? I say each sperm cell has just as much viable potential as a 2 month old infinite. BAN MASTURBATION.

Okay imagine if people are murdering actual babies. Thousands of birthed children.

Now think about a bunch of 17 year old kids who is getting an abortion so she doesn't have to be a single mother bringing another child into another broken redneck/ghetto cycle of welfare and degeneracy.

Do the loss of those zygotes hit as hard as the infants? No. Obviously not. They are not equal. There's no way any of you go about life actually butthurt about the abortions that happen all over the globe. You just have your opinion on it at random times whenever an argument about it manifests itself.

And I'm talking about abortions within the Roe vs Wade guidelines. Because Roe Vs Wade should act as a compromise. No late term abortions. But you can do it if it's early.

Why can't we agree on that? Why can't everyone mind their own business agree to disagree and worry about their own families?

Oh I know! So we can continue to waste our lives fighting for a perpetual stalemate.

Can't wait for everybody to continue to waste their time on this insignificant topic and forever accomplish nothing!

Conservatives would make a hell of a lot more headway if they dropped the stupid abortion obsession.
 
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#382
#382
PlanetVolunteer said:
There aren't many things I hate more than the stupid abortion debate

It will never be banned ever!

It is completely futile, unfair to individual rights, government overreach and more lovely division and chaos in our fractured country.

Not everyone has the same morals about this issue. They never will. Most people get abortions as soon as possible. There is hardly a difference between that and when your jacking at the toilet. Literally. If it's not viable and barely formed, its a whole lot closer to a sperm cell than an actual child. It's a cluster of potential. With your "heartbeat" argument why stop there? Why does it have to have a heartbeat? I say each sperm cell has just as much viable potential as a 2 month old infinite. BAN MASTURBATION.

Okay imagine if people are murdering actual babies. Thousands of birthed children.

Now think about a bunch of 17 year old kids who is getting an abortion so she doesn't have to be a single mother bringing another child into another broken redneck/ghetto cycle of welfare and degeneracy.

Do the loss of those zygotes hit as hard as the infants? No. Obviously not. They are not equal. There's no way any of you go about life actually butthurt about the abortions that happen all over the globe. You just have your opinion on it at random times whenever an argument about it manifests itself.

And I'm talking about abortions within the Roe vs Wade guidelines. Because Roe Vs Wade should act as a compromise. No late term abortions. But you can do it if it's early.

Why can't we agree on that? Why can't everyone mind their own business agree to disagree and worry about their own families?

Oh I know! So we can continue to waste our lives fighting for a perpetual stalemate.

Can't wait for everybody to continue to waste their time on this insignificant topic and forever accomplish nothing!

Conservatives would make a hell of a lot more headway if they dropped the stupid abortion obsession.
Click to expand...

Let’s just kill it because birth control and personal responsibility for ones actions are just so difficult.
 
#383
#383
If a pregnant woman is shot in the stomach and both her and the fetus die....the killer is charged with 2 counts of murder most of the time...seems like courts view it as a life when considering murder charges....how is abortion view different?
 
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#384
#384
Septic said:
It's a dumb question, predicated upon a phantom debate that only you are making points to.
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Not at all. If someone states a standard that would not exclude a late term abortion, it’s an important question.

If I said anyone who can see should be eligible for a drivers license it would make sense to ask me if I thought toddlers should be legally capable of driving, because that’s the issue my standard naturally leads to.

Saying unborn babies aren’t alive naturally leads to the question of a late term abortion.
 
#385
#385
PlanetVolunteer said:
There aren't many things I hate more than the stupid abortion debate

It will never be banned ever!

It is completely futile, unfair to individual rights, government overreach and more lovely division and chaos in our fractured country.

Not everyone has the same morals about this issue. They never will. Most people get abortions as soon as possible. There is hardly a difference between that and when your jacking at the toilet. Literally. If it's not viable and barely formed, its a whole lot closer to a sperm cell than an actual child. It's a cluster of potential. With your "heartbeat" argument why stop there? Why does it have to have a heartbeat? I say each sperm cell has just as much viable potential as a 2 month old infinite. BAN MASTURBATION.

Okay imagine if people are murdering actual babies. Thousands of birthed children.

Now think about a bunch of 17 year old kids who is getting an abortion so she doesn't have to be a single mother bringing another child into another broken redneck/ghetto cycle of welfare and degeneracy.

Do the loss of those zygotes hit as hard as the infants? No. Obviously not. They are not equal. There's no way any of you go about life actually butthurt about the abortions that happen all over the globe. You just have your opinion on it at random times whenever an argument about it manifests itself.

And I'm talking about abortions within the Roe vs Wade guidelines. Because Roe Vs Wade should act as a compromise. No late term abortions. But you can do it if it's early.

Why can't we agree on that? Why can't everyone mind their own business agree to disagree and worry about their own families?

Oh I know! So we can continue to waste our lives fighting for a perpetual stalemate.

Can't wait for everybody to continue to waste their time on this insignificant topic and forever accomplish nothing!

Conservatives would make a hell of a lot more headway if they dropped the stupid abortion obsession.
Click to expand...

That’s a long message for a man who believes this is a waste of time.

If I told you I was pro homicide would say “agree to disagree”? So the answer to that is obvious. Conservatives cannot agree to disagree because they see it as killing kids. That should be enough to answer your claims of government overreach. Since no one believes murder laws are government overreach, nor are they a violation of anyones rights. They exist to protect the rights of the second individual to life

Your 17 year old in the ghetto could still get an abortion under the MS standard as long as it’s done with the proper time frame (I believe 16 weeks).

I think we all realized the masturbation agrument was week and doesn’t hold up around the time we were in middle school. But I can address that part too if you’d like.
 
#386
#386
PKT_VOL said:
Viruses are still hotly debated as to whether they are alive or dead. I have a hard time classifying them as dead.

I would start with responding to external stimulus, then some form of homeostasis then some form of energy consumption (as work is being done on some level), then I'd add in some sort information gain.
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Good to see you posting again.
 
#387
#387
Vol8188 said:
That’s a long message for a man who believes this is a waste of time.

If I told you I was pro homicide would say “agree to disagree”? So the answer to that is obvious. Conservatives cannot agree to disagree because they see it as killing kids. That should be enough to answer your claims of government overreach. Since no one believes murder laws are government overreach, nor are they a violation of anyones rights. They exist to protect the rights of the second individual to life

Your 17 year old in the ghetto could still get an abortion under the MS standard as long as it’s done with the proper time frame (I believe 16 weeks).

I think we all realized the masturbation agrument was week and doesn’t hold up around the time we were in middle school. But I can address that part too if you’d like.
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Okay but who are you to decide to 60+% of Americans that it's not murder?

Its not like abortions are being forced on people and if it really were murdering babies people wouldn't be doing it and it wouldn't be allowed! Just some people choose to view it that way and it's become a political dead end and has accomplished nothing.

Do you actually look at anyone who has gotten an abortion a murderer?

A murderer sets out to specifically kill a person and take on all of the moral implications of that act. Its an act that is universally abhorred by all of society. 100% agreed upon that it is reprehensible.

Terminating a pregnancy just does not carry the same weight and enforcing that belief is wreckers and borderline totalitarian. It's a utopian dream to get to see a world where abortion doesn't happen.

And furthermore you're never going to convince people to stop by shaming them and calling them murderers!

You open up your heart to them and you lead them through compassion and love not ridicule and the desire to win an argument.

Many of us just want to argue to win all the time, but what happens is nobody wins when everyone is pissed off and going at each other's throats. That's why we are so damn divided.

I'm just advocating for COMPROMISE. It needs to be the goal here. Otherwise we have perpetual war and nobody benefits from that.

Roe Vs Wade. Leave it at that. You can get the abortion if its not viable. That appeases people that can get abortions. You can't get one if the fetus is viable. Period, everyone deal with it because it's the best ya gonna get. Focus on yourself and your family.

Then focus on stuff that's way more important like undermining the critical social justice movement, standing up to China etc.
 
#388
#388
PlanetVolunteer said:
Okay but who are you to decide to 60+% of Americans that it's not murder?

Its not like abortions are being forced on people and if it really were murdering babies people wouldn't be doing it and it wouldn't be allowed! Just some people choose to view it that way and it's become a political dead end and has accomplished nothing.

Do you actually look at anyone who has gotten an abortion a murderer?

A murderer sets out to specifically kill a person and take on all of the moral implications of that act. Its an act that is universally abhorred by all of society. 100% agreed upon that it is reprehensible.

Terminating a pregnancy just does not carry the same weight and enforcing that belief is wreckers and borderline totalitarian. It's a utopian dream to get to see a world where abortion doesn't happen.

And furthermore you're never going to convince people to stop by shaming them and calling them murderers!

You open up your heart to them and you lead them through compassion and love not ridicule and the desire to win an argument.

Many of us just want to argue to win all the time, but what happens is nobody wins when everyone is pissed off and going at each other's throats. That's why we are so damn divided.

I'm just advocating for COMPROMISE. It needs to be the goal here. Otherwise we have perpetual war and nobody benefits from that.

Roe Vs Wade. Leave it at that. You can get the abortion if its not viable. That appeases people that can get abortions. You can't get one if the fetus is viable. Period, everyone deal with it because it's the best ya gonna get. Focus on yourself and your family.

Then focus on stuff that's way more important like undermining the critical social justice movement, standing up to China etc.
Click to expand...

Obviously at some point it becomes murder, yet it still occurs. So to proclaim it wouldn’t occur or wouldn’t be murder seems to be false. The real question is when does it become murder?

Do I look at any woman who has gotten an abortion as a murder? Yes. Depending on how late it is. Anyone getting an elective late term abortion is committing murder. How’s it not?

Forcing all states to accept the left wing view of abortion feels far more totalitarian than to simply let states decide.

If you’re advocating for compromise wouldn’t letting states set their own laws be compromise?

At least we agree on the importance of exposing critical theory.
 
#389
#389
Vol8188 said:
You’ve literally never even heard of your own source. On top of that I have no doubt many of their listed “shootings” are the ones already debunked by NPR
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Can you show some evidence to support your claim that school shootings are down?
 
#390
#390
K-town Vol Fan said:
Can you show some evidence to support your claim that school shootings are down?
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Yes. The data in the 2 articles form NPR both show the numbers are down. Do you have anything other than your one obscure source that I assume you’ve never heard of?
 
#396
#396
School Shootings This Year: How Many and Where

There have been 29 school shootings this year, 21 "since August 1. A shooting on Nov. 30, in which a student killed four people and injured seven at an Oxford, Mich., high school, is the deadliest school shooting since May 2018. There have been 87 school shootings since 2018. The COVID-19 pandemic appears to have interrupted the trend line. The 2020 figure, with 10 shootings, was significantly lower than 2019 and 2018, which each had 24."

What funny is that they count school shootings as anything on school property...they list all 29 shooting...most happened after school in the parking lot at football games...there are claims of stray bullets hitting people being a school shooting...25 plus year old men shooting at each other..seems to me that if mass shootings have a gang and drug sale restrictions on them, to be called a mass shooting, school shootings should too.
 
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#397
#397
whodeycin85 said:
School Shootings This Year: How Many and Where

There have been 29 school shootings this year, 21 "since August 1. A shooting on Nov. 30, in which a student killed four people and injured seven at an Oxford, Mich., high school, is the deadliest school shooting since May 2018. There have been 87 school shootings since 2018. The COVID-19 pandemic appears to have interrupted the trend line. The 2020 figure, with 10 shootings, was significantly lower than 2019 and 2018, which each had 24."

What funny is that they count school shootings as anything on school property...they list all 29 shooting...most happened after school in the parking lot at football games...there are claims of stray bullets hitting people being a school shooting...25 plus year old men shooting at each other..seems to me that if mass shootings have a gang and drug sale restrictions on them, to be called a mass shooting, school shootings should too.
Click to expand...

When NPR investigated some of these “school shootings” in 2018 they found over 60% of them were not actually school shootings. Some of the incidents involved a shooting nearby. Some of the incidents were as simple as a kid having a gun in his car that never went off. Some of the incidents there was no record of at all.

But the left wing narrative must be protected at all costs. Regardless of data and fact all the NPCs must repeat “school shootings are a growing trend and the only solution is to ban guns”
 
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#398
#398
Vol8188 said:
When NPR investigated some of these “school shootings” in 2018 they found over 60% of them were not actually school shootings. Some of the incidents involved a shooting nearby. Some of the incidents were as simple as a kid having a gun in his car that never went off. Some of the incidents there was no record of at all.

But the left wing narrative must be protected at all costs. Regardless of data and fact all the NPCs must repeat “school shootings are a growing trend and the only solution is to ban guns”
Click to expand...

But apparently proving these didn’t happen doesn’t matter because it was 2018, or so I’ve heard
 
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#399
#399
Vol8188 said:
Okay. Where do we disagree?
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It starts with the idea that the abortion debate, a debate which is fundamentally rooted in the philosophical concept of personhood, is in any way impacted by conception.

Vol8188 said:
Anyone who has had even a middle school science class should know and understand that life does begin at conception.
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The idea that personhood starts at conception is complete nonsense. It becomes even more head-scratching when the reasoning for such a notion is tied to another nonsense idea of "life beginning at conception". Life does not magically begin at conception. It is an unbroken chain billions of years old (that we know of). Even if you wanted to posit the idea of a "separate biological entity" at conception, you would be hard pressed to deny that same distinction to gametes. Either way, granting separate biological entity status =/= personhood.

Vol8188 said:
Science is clear. No legitimate scientist using any valid, accepted standard for what life is, would proclaim an unborn child is anything other than alive.
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The bigger problem here is that you are trying to frame this as science debate; it is not. No different than when the new atheists tried to frame theology as a science debate. It doesn't work because these are not sciencfic questions.

Vol8188 said:
Typically these are the things required for life.

1. Consume energy
2. Respond to stimuli
3. Can grow
4. can reproduce (this is why viruses, sperm, and eggs are not alive)
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Finally, distinction of something being alive is rather meaningless in debate about personhood. Even still, your list of requirement to be require for life was nonsense and another reason why science cannot answer these questions.
 
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