Why So Much Russian Propaganda on VN?

[Vol Main]

Salon.com???? And from 2019???

Orange_Vol1321????? And from September 19, 2022???????? Seriously, when you attack the messenger instead of responding to the message, it means you got nothing.

 

[volinbham]

Ukraine is one of the largest countries in Europe, which are democratic states freely organized for self defense. Putin is a mass murdering dictator who has spoken many times about his intentions for expanding militarily into several of those countries. That means war with NATO and the United States, whether you care about Russia or not. Had we given Putin a pass on his invasion of Ukraine, it would enable him to continue with his war plans against other countries which involve treaty commitments. That would mean the big war you claim not to want. Sometimes doing nothing invites the very outcome one wants to avoid. The war in Ukraine is one of those times, and you should have sense enough to realize that.

1. We did give him a pass on his invasion of Ukraine - (Crimea).
2. Given how much he's struggled with Ukraine the fear that he'd march across Europe was always way overblown propaganda.

 

[LouderVol]

Russians aren't communist anymore. You're like 30 years behind the times dude.

What has demostranably changed? The flag?

Their elections are still shams with predetermined winners with a single person holding the vast majority of the power.
Their economy is still held by a few powerful men and manipulated by the state.
The people arent free to leave or speak out against the government.
They are still deporting people to Siberia.
They still have a stranglehold on their smaller neighbors.

 

[Gandalf]

Ukraine is one of the largest countries in Europe, which are democratic states freely organized for self defense. Putin is a mass murdering dictator who has spoken many times about his intentions for expanding militarily into several of those countries. That means war with NATO and the United States, whether you care about Russia or not. Had we given Putin a pass on his invasion of Ukraine, it would enable him to continue with his war plans against other countries which involve treaty commitments. That would mean the big war you claim not to want. Sometimes doing nothing invites the very outcome one wants to avoid. The war in Ukraine is one of those times, and you should have sense enough to realize that.

Eh, but specifically he HASN'T attacked a NATO country and is not threatening to. I am sure he would LIKE to but that is something quite different. Bottom line, American interests are NOT served by a hot war with Russia over Ukraine.

Punish him, help force him to the table, (hell, make him sell a TON of oil to pay to repair things), etc, yada yada but there should be no reason AT ALL we are putting our own nation on the line here. Plenty of ways of smacking the Ivan bear on the nose without having to drag ourselves into a conflict.

The problem is the war machine in Arlington (and more so Foggy Bottom, Langley and Ft Mead) are using Ukraine as a cats paw to force the removal of Putin from office. Earlier in this conflict, Putin had captured a piece of the Donbas and both he and Zelinsky were ready to sit down and discuss peace terms (basically Putin keeps what he got, which was previously Russian anyway and Ukraine stays neutral). At first Zelinsky was ready to sit down - then the USA said NO! Now we are calling for regime change in Russia and our Ukrainian stooge is dutifully bleating the same message (and he doesn't really have much choice as our puppet).

So NO, we could have punished Russia without causing a global economic disaster and another few hundred thousand dead before this all ends up right in the same spot anyway. The only OTHER way it can go is that we get drawn into it via our allies and our own hubris thinking that no nuclear war can actually happen. OR we remove/assasinate Putin and Russia falls apart and 1/2 their nukes get sold off to every islamastan.

 

[Ashevolle]

What has demostranably changed? The flag?

Their elections are still shams with predetermined winners with a single person holding the vast majority of the power.
Their economy is still held by a few powerful men and manipulated by the state.
The people arent free to leave or speak out against the government.
They are still deporting people to Siberia.
They still have a stranglehold on their smaller neighbors.

The stated aims are wholly different. No one is saying it's all done by and for the good of the whole with equal power residing with all members and equal ownership of everything by everyone. Everyone there knows that it's an oligarchy and no one pretends it's anything else.

You might as well say that all governments are the same if that's how you define it. Power and the economy are held by a few here. Elections are shams here. That doesn't magically make us a communist country.

Communism had a specific definition with which you seem not to be well acquainted.

 

[LouderVol]

Eh, but specifically he HASN'T attacked a NATO country and is not threatening to. I am sure he would LIKE to but that is something quite different. Bottom line, American interests are NOT served by a hot war with Russia over Ukraine.

Punish him, help force him to the table, (hell, make him sell a TON of oil to pay to repair things), etc, yada yada but there should be no reason AT ALL we are putting our own nation on the line here. Plenty of ways of smacking the Ivan bear on the nose without having to drag ourselves into a conflict.

The problem is the war machine in Arlington (and more so Foggy Bottom, Langley and Ft Mead) are using Ukraine as a cats paw to force the removal of Putin from office. Earlier in this conflict, Putin had captured a piece of the Donbas and both he and Zelinsky were ready to sit down and discuss peace terms (basically Putin keeps what he got, which was previously Russian anyway and Ukraine stays neutral). At first Zelinsky was ready to sit down - then the USA said NO! Now we are calling for regime change in Russia and our Ukrainian stooge is dutifully bleating the same message (and he doesn't really have much choice as our puppet).

So NO, we could have punished Russia without causing a global economic disaster and another few hundred thousand dead before this all ends up right in the same spot anyway. The only OTHER way it can go is that we get drawn into it via our allies and our own hubris thinking that no nuclear war can actually happen. OR we remove/assasinate Putin and Russia falls apart and 1/2 their nukes get sold off to every islamastan.

Link to Zelensky being willing to accept the status quo earlier in the war? Everything I have ever seen has said the same thing, no peace till Ukraine is whole.

 

[LouderVol]

The stated aims are wholly different. No one is saying it's all done by and for the good of the whole with equal power residing with all members and equal ownership of everything by everyone. Everyone there knows that it's an oligarchy and no one pretends it's anything else.

You might as well say that all governments are the same if that's how you define it. Power and the economy are held by a few here. Elections are shams here. That doesn't magically make us a communist country.

Communism had a specific definition with which you seem not to be well acquainted.

Very well acquainted with the actual definition. And yes I am pretty willing to slap a socialist label on most governments. Communism would imply the more totalitarian government Russia still has rather than our more limited control.

 

[Ashevolle]

Very well acquainted with the actual definition. And yes I am pretty willing to slap a socialist label on most governments. Communism would imply the more totalitarian government Russia still has rather than our more limited control.

Your willingness to apply the communist tag to modern day Russia shows you're either ignorant or intellectually dishonest. Hyperbolic or helpless. Take your pick.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Ukraine is one of the largest countries in Europe, which are democratic states freely organized for self defense. Putin is a mass murdering dictator who has spoken many times about his intentions for expanding militarily into several of those countries. That means war with NATO and the United States, whether you care about Russia or not. Had we given Putin a pass on his invasion of Ukraine, it would enable him to continue with his war plans against other countries which involve treaty commitments. That would mean the big war you claim not to want. Sometimes doing nothing invites the very outcome one wants to avoid. The war in Ukraine is one of those times, and you should have sense enough to realize that.

Ukraine is a money laundering corrupt crap hole that’s run by a dictator who silences all opposing political opposition. Your boy is a corrupt POS. As bad as Putin? No. But he is still a POS. But hey keep carrying water for a guy who has stolen billions from the American taxpayer.

 

[T Clifton]

Eh, but specifically he HASN'T attacked a NATO country and is not threatening to. I am sure he would LIKE to but that is something quite different. Bottom line, American interests are NOT served by a hot war with Russia over Ukraine.

Punish him, help force him to the table, (hell, make him sell a TON of oil to pay to repair things), etc, yada yada but there should be no reason AT ALL we are putting our own nation on the line here. Plenty of ways of smacking the Ivan bear on the nose without having to drag ourselves into a conflict.

The problem is the war machine in Arlington (and more so Foggy Bottom, Langley and Ft Mead) are using Ukraine as a cats paw to force the removal of Putin from office. Earlier in this conflict, Putin had captured a piece of the Donbas and both he and Zelinsky were ready to sit down and discuss peace terms (basically Putin keeps what he got, which was previously Russian anyway and Ukraine stays neutral). At first Zelinsky was ready to sit down - then the USA said NO! Now we are calling for regime change in Russia and our Ukrainian stooge is dutifully bleating the same message (and he doesn't really have much choice as our puppet).

So NO, we could have punished Russia without causing a global economic disaster and another few hundred thousand dead before this all ends up right in the same spot anyway. The only OTHER way it can go is that we get drawn into it via our allies and our own hubris thinking that no nuclear war can actually happen. OR we remove/assasinate Putin and Russia falls apart and 1/2 their nukes get sold off to every islamastan.

 

[Vol Main]

Eh, but specifically he HASN'T attacked a NATO country and is not threatening to. I am sure he would LIKE to but that is something quite different. Bottom line, American interests are NOT served by a hot war with Russia over Ukraine.

Punish him, help force him to the table, (hell, make him sell a TON of oil to pay to repair things), etc, yada yada but there should be no reason AT ALL we are putting our own nation on the line here. Plenty of ways of smacking the Ivan bear on the nose without having to drag ourselves into a conflict.

The problem is the war machine in Arlington (and more so Foggy Bottom, Langley and Ft Mead) are using Ukraine as a cats paw to force the removal of Putin from office. Earlier in this conflict, Putin had captured a piece of the Donbas and both he and Zelinsky were ready to sit down and discuss peace terms (basically Putin keeps what he got, which was previously Russian anyway and Ukraine stays neutral). At first Zelinsky was ready to sit down - then the USA said NO! Now we are calling for regime change in Russia and our Ukrainian stooge is dutifully bleating the same message (and he doesn't really have much choice as our puppet).

So NO, we could have punished Russia without causing a global economic disaster and another few hundred thousand dead before this all ends up right in the same spot anyway. The only OTHER way it can go is that we get drawn into it via our allies and our own hubris thinking that no nuclear war can actually happen. OR we remove/assasinate Putin and Russia falls apart and 1/2 their nukes get sold off to every islamastan.

Because you wrote this bullhock, you either lack the good sense to know that's what it is or you know and do not care. Either way, it is without basis, reason, or value.

 

[Gandalf]

Because you wrote this bullhock, you either lack the good sense to know that's what it is or you know and do not care. Either way, it is without basis, reason, or value.

Thats what I love, someone who has the sense to tell me what is good for me (because I have no idea myself, amaright?)! I am sure you fit right into a progressive utopia. No doubt you will make a fine member of the brown shirt red bandanna brigade.

 

[0nelilreb]

Thats what I love, someone who has the sense to tell me what is good for me (because I have no idea myself, amaright?)! I am sure you fit right into a progressive utopia. No doubt you will make a fine member of the brown shirt red bandanna brigade.

He would sell you out for a gold star on his social credit score while reporting to the “Ministry of misinformation and social justice” that he was just doing his duty as a dedicated citizen and not think twice about it .

 

[Gandalf]

He would sell you out for a gold star on his social credit score while reporting to the “Ministry of misinformation and social justice” that he was just doing his duty as a dedicated citizen and not think twice about it .

Oh, I don't know...I suspect there would be a teensy weensy bit of smug self righteous thoughts as he did so.

 

[Vol Main]

Oh, I don't know...I suspect there would be a teensy weensy bit of smug self righteous thoughts as he did so.

Cut out that lousy commie rat talk!

 

[Gandalf]

Cut out that lousy commie rat talk!

 

[Vol Main]