Why would someone not outsource?

#1
NEO

NEO

Eat at Joe's
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#1
I have an honest question....


why would someone not outsource their business if they could?

The work ethic of this country sucks now

The regulations are insane

The cost of labor is almost triple that of most emerging market or tiger countries.

The type of labor you get at 3Xratio here is much lazier and has less reasons to show up.


It is proven that net cashflows will atleast double if not triple.

Emerging markets and Tiger countries actually are happy to see you there while in American being a prosperious business is forwned upon.

Taxation is lower in every other country.

Etc Etc Etc


So why would anyone actually want to keep their business here if they could move it somewhere else?
 
#2
#2
Quality of the work product? Rework can cancel out the potential cost savings. It's a case by case basis. High criticality work should be kept onshore.
 
#3
#3
NEOCON said:
I have an honest question....


why would someone not outsource their business if they could?

The work ethic of this country sucks now

The regulations are insane

The cost of labor is almost triple that of most emerging market or tiger countries.

The type of labor you get at 3Xratio here is much lazier and has less reasons to show up.


It is proven that net cashflows will atleast double if not triple.

Emerging markets and Tiger countries actually are happy to see you there while in American being a prosperious business is forwned upon.

Taxation is lower in every other country.

Etc Etc Etc


So why would anyone actually want to keep their business here if they could move it somewhere else?
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I disagree with many of your assertions from firsthand experience with overseas outsourcing. One of the most difficult things to manage is protection of your IP, especially in countries like China.

Neocon, from this and other posts, you seem to be very disappointed in your staff/workersand with the US gov as it pertains to your company. What keeps you living and working here in the USA? Why not move to a tiger country? I'm not being a smartazz, just curious.
 
#4
#4
Danl said:
I disagree with many of your assertions from firsthand experience with overseas outsourcing. One of the most difficult things to manage is protection of your IP, especially in countries like China.

Neocon, from this and other posts, you seem to be very disappointed in your staff/workersand with the US gov as it pertains to your company. What keeps you living and working here in the USA? Why not move to a tiger country? I'm not being a smartazz, just curious.
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Depends on what he is outsourcing, straight BPO work with little IP is okay. Innovative work, only some countries and a very small list of companies.

Got to deal with timezone issues (get ready for early mornings and late nights all the time) and communication issues. Make sure you don't use analogies and everything important must be written.
 
#5
#5
Danl said:
I disagree with many of your assertions from firsthand experience with overseas outsourcing. One of the most difficult things to manage is protection of your IP, especially in countries like China.

Neocon, from this and other posts, you seem to be very disappointed in your staff/workersand with the US gov as it pertains to your company. What keeps you living and working here in the USA? Why not move to a tiger country? I'm not being a smartazz, just curious.
Click to expand...

been asking myself this more and more...

I have no answer.
 
#6
#6
Just do it already. Just like everything else in life, I'm sure it's not as great as it appears. If it was such an easy choice, everyone would outsource.
 
#7
#7
Weezy said:
Just do it already. Just like everything else in life, I'm sure it's not as great as it appears. If it was such an easy choice, everyone would outsource.
Click to expand...

I agree.

The fact that Nike, Reebok, ATT, Nationwide, Allstate, Comcast, US Bank, Chase, etc, etc, etc, etc have already done it leads me to believe it might not be a smart choice.
 
#8
#8
but this is not about me....this is outsourcing in general...please keep topic off me.
 
#9
#9
NEOCON said:
I agree.

The fact that Nike, Reebok, ATT, Nationwide, Allstate, Comcast, US Bank, Chase, etc, etc, etc, etc have already done it leads me to believe it might not be a smart choice.
Click to expand...

I would guess that most of that work is low labor and that they still invest quite a bit more into high paying labor here. I'm fine with that. But I would say there are negatives to even outsourcing that, although clearly the cost-benefit is worth it. The negatives to me would be consumer relations in quality of service and product, as well as general PR of work conditions. I know I buy New Balance for the most part to avoid Nike. Clearly though, I'm not representative of the general consumer.
 
#10
#10
Weezy said:
I would guess that most of that work is low labor and that they still invest quite a bit more into high paying labor here. I'm fine with that. But I would say there are negatives to even outsourcing that, although clearly the cost-benefit is worth it. The negatives to me would be consumer relations in quality of service and product, as well as general PR of work conditions. I know I buy New Balance for the most part to avoid Nike. Clearly though, I'm not representative of the general consumer.
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I agree.

Cannot as easily outsource high end jobs.


But I believe the difference for a low end job here vs there is extreme. Here a low end worker hardly shows, has poor work ethic, and take sno pride in their job. An employer is also battling welfare pay vs work pay and 99 weeks of unemployment. There the emloyer does not battle this and if you dont work you dont survive. This is a huge difference.
 
#11
#11
NEOCON said:
I agree.

Cannot as easily outsource high end jobs.


But I believe the difference for a low end job here vs there is extreme. Here a low end worker hardly shows, has poor work ethic, and take sno pride in their job. An employer is also battling welfare pay vs work pay and 99 weeks of unemployment. There the emloyer does not battle this and if you dont work you dont survive. This is a huge difference.
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Neo, I've seen your posts along these lines. I have to say that my experience with local workers is 180 degrees from yours. I've had very few employees that don't consistently, and usually willingly, contribute towards company objectives. And that includes service staff and entry level jobs. I can't say that its because they understand the supply/demand for their positions or that they are just "good" employees. Or maybe the "bad" employees get weeded out pretty quickly. I've never had an employee play the tax return/don't show up for work games that you report.

Just my $.02
 
#13
#13
Necon, first to answer your question, the reason why companies outsource their jobs is because of the government, simple put, big brother makes it so hard to be able to run a company now in America. Now for yourself, I believe you are the owner of some type of call center? Fire them, simple put or cut their hours back so much to send a message, your the boss act like one.
 
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#14
#14
I used to work for a company that offshored part of their call center to Manilla. We hired the best and brightest that country had to offer and they were awful, lazy and completely worthless. The only thing they were good at was resetting passwords
 
#15
#15
EvanStalcup1990 said:
Necon, first to answer your question, the reason why companies outsource their jobs is because of the government, simple put, big brother makes it so hard to be able to run a company now in America. Now for yourself, I believe you are the owner of some type of call center? Fire them, simple put or cut their hours back so much to send a message, your the boss act like one.
Click to expand...

2 points I'd like to make:

1) nobody seems to have an arguement against offshoring

2) I fire on average 6 employees a month due to not being able to show up etc etc. I also cut hours. MY point that I was making is that I am sick of having to do this. It is childish, pathetic, and a total waste of time. If Americans dont want to work I will go elsewhere.


Again, this thread is not about my business (even though some here have taken it as such) and all that I am asking is for a few reasons some would argue against offshoring.
 
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#16
#16
NEOCON said:
2 points I'd like to make:

1) nobody seems to have an arguement against offshoring

2) I fire on average 6 employees a month due to not being able to show up etc etc. I also cut hours. MY point that I was
making is that I am sick of having to do this. It is childish, pathetic, and a total waste of time. If Americans dont want to work I will go elsewhere.
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Neo if your employees are as bad as you say they are and you are having to fire an average of 6 per month, that points to the hiring process. It appears you are hiring the wrong employees. I would make a change in the person doing the hiring. It is obvious the person hiring now is not doing a very good job.

There are plenty of Americans that are hard workers and very dependable who are looking for employment.
 
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#17
#17
EvanStalcup1990 said:
Necon, first to answer your question, the reason why companies outsource their jobs is because of the government, simple put, big brother makes it so hard to be able to run a company now in America.


This is simply not true in most cases. The number one reason, by far, that companies outsource overseas is cheap labor. Not that the US Govt makes it any easier to run a co. here than there, but that's not the main reason MOST cos. outsource.


Now for yourself, I believe you are the owner of some type of call center? Fire them, simple put or cut their hours back so much to send a message, your the boss act like one.
Click to expand...

Someone else suggested changing the personnel or process used to hire people. I would look into that, but that's just me.
 
#18
#18
we are starting to do it more and more in IT. Ours is going to India and it's funny to see people in the same room/call that won't talk to each other because of different social levels. I don't want an email if you're in the same room.

Also the code is not great and lacks any imagination or real working knowledge of our business. I had to sit with them for a while to explain our processes and it took a while for them to understand. The ones they sent to the US were supposed to be the best and I honestly wasn't that impressed. Felt like they were still reading a script. The time difference is a key issue in speed but we were told that if we make the commitment it would not be a problem anymore. Not sure if that is true or not

We are trying to go to a more centralized call center structure and the decision was made that it will be in the US. It will take a while to get them all up to speed but we won't have to clear the same hurdles that we experienced with offshore workers. Plus I'm not sure our customers would be very excited about it
 
#19
#19
Because if you outsource both your taco bells, you would no longer be able to sell your product in the states.
 
#20
#20
Sounds like from this thread a lot of people have had bad experiences with outsourcing. You get what you pay for seems to be holding true....even in Asia.

But Neocon still asks, "what's the negatives?" ...:rolleyes:
 
#21
#21
Even the government outsources. Now, its not what you think that being farming out their work to other countries but they do outsource.

There are functions of govermental work are the same as work that is performed in the private sector so oursourcing, or using a temp agency, is a very economical alternative to hiring a full time employee. All functions have electricians and wrench turners to keep their agency functioning so instead of going thru the hiring process and paying benefits to have it take up to a year or so to fire a person, they can hire thru a temp agency and get the same work for cheaper. If the person doesnt work out then they complain to the temp agency and a new one is put in their place. No paperwork, no hearings, no dragging on and on before the person is officially released and a new person can be added. If a temp works out they always have the option of hiring them on permanently.

In light of the upcoming Obamacare and the uncertainity of its cost, this is a very good option to keep operations running while controling cost.
 
#22
#22
Weezy said:
Sounds like from this thread a lot of people have had bad experiences with outsourcing. You get what you pay for seems to be holding true....even in Asia.

But Neocon still asks, "what's the negatives?" ...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I can have an entire container of material totally screwed up, by my supplier in China, and still SAVE money replacing it with another over buying one container of the same material made here in the US. The advantages FAR outweigh the disadvantages for my company. We would not ba able to compete in the US market if I did not import as NOT ONE of my competitors manufacture here.
 
#23
#23
GreveHaller said:
Even the government outsources. Now, its not what you think that being farming out their work to other countries but they do outsource.

There are functions of govermental work are the same as work that is performed in the private sector so oursourcing, or using a temp agency, is a very economical alternative to hiring a full time employee. All functions have electricians and wrench turners to keep their agency functioning so instead of going thru the hiring process and paying benefits to have it take up to a year or so to fire a person, they can hire thru a temp agency and get the same work for cheaper. If the person doesnt work out then they complain to the temp agency and a new one is put in their place. No paperwork, no hearings, no dragging on and on before the person is officially released and a new person can be added. If a temp works out they always have the option of hiring them on permanently.

In light of the upcoming Obamacare and the uncertainity of its cost, this is a very good option to keep operations running while controling cost.
Click to expand...

I was unaware that the government uses temp agencies.
 
#24
#24
BearCat204 said:
I was unaware that the government uses temp agencies.
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There's alot of government - federal, state, city, county, etc.. so keep that in mind but in each case they have buildings that have to be kept up. They also have many vehicles. Fire trucks, police cars, pavers, garbage trucks. All of those things are machines and will need servicing. They need wrench turners to fix them just as much as a dealership needs wrench turners. Instead of hiring a mechanic you can hire a temp agency and pay them the same hourly rate. At that point its up to the temp agency on how much they pay their employee and if they want to offer them benefits. If the temp doesnt meet the gov't agency's expectation for service the temp agency replaces them seamlessly. Considering the rising cost of benefits plus pensions, this isnt a bad way to control cost while keeping productivity high.
 
#25
#25
GreveHaller said:
There's alot of government - federal, state, city, county, etc.. so keep that in mind but in each case they have buildings that have to be kept up. They also have many vehicles. Fire trucks, police cars, pavers, garbage trucks. All of those things are machines and will need servicing. They need wrench turners to fix them just as much as a dealership needs wrench turners. Instead of hiring a mechanic you can hire a temp agency and pay them the same hourly rate. At that point its up to the temp agency on how much they pay their employee and if they want to offer them benefits. If the temp doesnt meet the gov't agency's expectation for service the temp agency replaces them seamlessly. Considering the rising cost of benefits plus pensions, this isnt a bad way to control cost while keeping productivity high.
Click to expand...
Understood
 
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