Wiseman ineligible

#801
#801
cardvolfan said:
When that amount of money is given to a prospect's family, and the trail almost absolutely leads back to incentivizing to come to said school, that is against NCAA rules, period. You can whine, make excuses, cry foul, or anything else. The NCAA disagrees with your situation. Not everyone HAS to play by the rules, but those that don't often pay the price. If you think that the NCAA just suddenly, 2 hours before a game, "changed their mind" without any valid reasons, I've got some swamp land in Florida I'll sell to you at a real good price.
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uh, I'm pretty sure I said Wiseman got screwed and Memphis was just fine...I see nothing in what you quoted that qualifies as whining or making excuses.

so why are you rambling?
 
#802
#802
cncchris33 said:
Two things...

1. Slim, to no chance that suspension is reduced, and the TRO is to blame for that, not the other way around. The NCAA doesn't take kindly to having their authority challenged.

2. You better hope he pays it back before he signs his NBA contract because in order to comply with the NCAA, he must have it repaid by the end of his eligibility...
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ahh, that makes a lot more sense than what was said before. still that's a lot of money for a kid to have to come up with
 
#803
#803
There should be other major penalties for Memphis. If Pearl got 3 years for his incident, Penny deserves the same. Though after Frank Haith did far worse than Pearl and lied to the NCAA 3 different times and only got 5 games, I won't hold my breath.
 
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#804
#804
cardvolfan said:
When that amount of money is given to a prospect's family, and the trail almost absolutely leads back to incentivizing to come to said school, that is against NCAA rules, period.
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so why did they declare him eligible when they knew about the 11,500?
 
#805
#805
VolArmy74 said:
There should be other major penalties for Memphis. If Pearl got 3 years for his incident, Penny deserves the same. Though after Frank Haith did far worse than Pearl and lied to the NCAA 3 different times and only got 5 games, I won't hold my breath.
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Bruce lied and got caught...Penny told the NCAA about the 11,500...major difference.
 
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#807
#807
VolArmy74 said:
We don't know what Penny said or didn't. But regardless, buying players has historically been the cardinal sin in NCAA sports. Penny bought a player.
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If Penny had directly lied to the NCAA they (the NCAA) would have said as much and we wouldn't be talking about 'how many' games would be sat out.

if something is so terrible that we committed a 'cardinal sin' why was he cleared in May? No new info has come out...

we've known about this 11,500 since the TSSAA lawsuit in Nov 2017...The Penny Hardaway HOF opened in 2011...it's 2019!
 
#808
#808
UofMemphis said:
^ as Seth Greenberg said he'll do a payment plan and he only has to make the first payment to be re-eligible...worry about the balance after you sign a NBA contract. He'll make the first payment off his Pell Grant anyway.

as for the rest the NCAA should have told him back in May (when they cleared him) that he was ineligible so James could go sign a G-League or Euro contract worth 100-150k and just skipped college. That's why I don't blame Wiseman for suing the NCAA and the UofM...[folks seem to think Memphis sued the NCAA...nope] They told him he could play and changed their mind 2 hours before our first game with no new evidence. That flip-flop cost him potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars...I'd sue too.

Wiseman sued the NCAA and Memphis gaining a TRO restraining Memphis from deeming him ineligible. We couldn't hold him out based on the NCAA decision.
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The bolded is clearly wrong if you read what I posted. What incentive does Wiseman have to pay the money back after he is drafted and receives an NBA paycheck?

And just because a court ruled that Memphis and the NCAA temporarily couldn't rule him ineligible, it doesn't mean Memphis had to play him. In a manner of self-preservation beyond the immediate here and now, Memphis could have chosen to simply not play him despite him being eligible. The NCAA was presented with new evidence in the case which is why they reevaluated his eligibility. Wiseman and Memphis don't have to like it, but in the eyes of the NCAA, they have to accept it. Instead, both of them chose to spit in the NCAA's face and play him, anyway. Now, Wiseman is being punished and Memphis will likely face further punishment down the road.
 
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#809
#809
the Judges ruling reads: IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Nominal Defendant, University of Memphis, is hereby restrained and enjoined from withholding the plaintiff from intercollegiate competition as a member of the men’s basketball team on the basis of the NCAA decision, and that the University of Memphis is hereby authorized and allowed to play Mr. Wiseman as the coaching staff deems appropriate.

so, if Memphis did as you said and played it safe by not playing Wiseman...they would still be playing it safe because of the NCAA decision which is in direct violation of the judges order (see underlined)

I can think of no reason that doesn't involve the NCAA decision to hold Wiseman out...so if Memphis had not played him Wiseman could have gone right back to the Judge and asked him to hold Memphis in contempt for violating the TRO.

now, Wiseman wouldn't and either would the judge...but it's technically true and something the NCAA must consider with our appeal.
 
#810
#810
UofMemphis said:
If Penny had directly lied to the NCAA they (the NCAA) would have said as much and we wouldn't be talking about 'how many' games would be sat out.

if something is so terrible that we committed a 'cardinal sin' why was he cleared in May? No new info has come out...

we've known about this 11,500 since the TSSAA lawsuit in Nov 2017...The Penny Hardaway HOF opened in 2011...it's 2019!
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Certainly won’t debate you and I understand you defending your program but if this occurred with another program surely you could see how bad this looks.
 
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#811
#811
tennrich1 said:
Certainly won’t debate you and I understand you defending your program but if this occurred with another program surely you could see how bad this looks.
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I can honestly say in 2017 Penny was a high school hoops coach...so even if he wasn't Memphis' coach yet, any good HS head coach should know not to give a five-star recruits mom 11,500.
 
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#813
#813
now that said, why did the NCAA clear him in May?

all of this mess could have been avoided by the NCAA telling him he's not eligible back in May...James could have gone and signed a G-League/Euro ball deal for 150k and just skipped college.

and as I said the 11,500 has been known about since Nov 2017 with the TSSAA lawsuit...the Penny Hardaway HOF opened in 2011...and this is the end of 2019, so how in the hell did the NCAA clear him knowing all this?
 
#814
#814
I don't think the NCAA knew about the $1M Penny gave to university when they made the ruling back in May. This came out later, didn't it, and that caused the AA to change their ruling.
 
#815
#815
UofMemphis said:
the Judges ruling reads: IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Nominal Defendant, University of Memphis, is hereby restrained and enjoined from withholding the plaintiff from intercollegiate competition as a member of the men’s basketball team on the basis of the NCAA decision, and that the University of Memphis is hereby authorized and allowed to play Mr. Wiseman as the coaching staff deems appropriate.

so, if Memphis did as you said and played it safe by not playing Wiseman...they would still be playing it safe because of the NCAA decision which is in direct violation of the judges order (see underlined)

I can think of no reason that doesn't involve the NCAA decision to hold Wiseman out...so if Memphis had not played him Wiseman could have gone right back to the Judge and asked him to hold Memphis in contempt for violating the TRO.

now, Wiseman wouldn't and either would the judge...but it's technically true and something the NCAA must consider with our appeal.
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Lol

No judge can “make” any team “play” an individual..........period.


He basically/fakely made him eligible.......in no way did Memphis HAVE to play him.


I say “fakely” because the temporary ruling......wouldn’t be legally binding over the NCAA only a permanent one could be.


However you are right.....Wiseman got screwed......but the coach should have known this could/would be a problem.
 
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#816
#816
orangemadam said:
I don't think the NCAA knew about the $1M Penny gave to university when they made the ruling back in May. This came out later, didn't it, and that caused the AA to change their ruling.
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but he gave the money in 2008 and it opened in 2011...hell, his press conference when we hired him was held there...how could they not know?
 
#817
#817
JoAllan said:
Lol

No judge can “make” any team “play” an individual..........period.


He basically/fakely made him eligible.......in no way did Memphis HAVE to play him.


I say “fakely” because the temporary ruling......wouldn’t be legally binding over the NCAA only a permanent one could be.


However you are right.....Wiseman got screwed......but the coach should have known this could/would be a problem.
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Memphis program messed with the ultimate judge of college basketball, and for that, they might pay a hefty price. For the record, I'm already pumped about December 14th. TBA will be rocking and that is going to be one hostile crowd.
 
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#818
#818
The underlined part of that judges ruling wasn't the pertinent part. Notice below that it said "allowed to play Mr. Wiseman as coaches deem appropriate". Appropriate would have been not to play him. They chose the path of giving the NCAA the bird in a case where they were clearly in violation of a booster making illegal payments to a recruit.

Had it not been withdrawn that judges order would likely have been very swiftly vacated.
 
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#819
#819
VolArmy74 said:
The underlined part of that judges ruling wasn't the pertinent part. Notice below that it said "allowed to play Mr. Wiseman as coaches deem appropriate". Appropriate would have been not to play him. They chose the path of giving the NCAA the bird in a case where they were clearly in violation of a booster making illegal payments to a recruit.

Had it not been withdrawn that judges order would likely have been very swiftly vacated.
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appropriate based on what? drum roll please...the NCAA decision! which we could not consider under the TRO.

moreover, it would not have been swiftly vacated. It would have been continued on and on in court until Wiseman was out of school...and that's fine for Wiseman.

thing is, Memphis would still be an NCAA member and the second that TRO expired they (they NCAA) would bring down the hammer of Thor upon Memphis. That would effectively neuter Penny on the recruiting trail going forward so that plan was a no-go from the start.

thus we are going through the reinstatement process because losing the battle is better than losing the war.
 
#821
#821
You guys may as well give up the ghost in trying to argue this case with a Memphis fan who is inevitably going to struggle viewing this without a slanted perspective.

As has been stated, the poster would have a much different opinion on the matter if Wiseman had gone to Kentucky and this was taking place. Clearly, the NCAA was presented with new evidence in the matter to cause them to retroactively call into question Wiseman’s eligibility. They didn’t just arbitrarily decide to deem him ineligible without cause.

Wiseman and Memphis tried to strong arm the NCAA and it backfired, plain and simple, and Memphis will likely suffer the consequences for it at some point.
 
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#822
#822
UofMemphis said:
Bruce lied and got caught...Penny told the NCAA about the 11,500...major difference.
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Bruce absolutely effed up. But man, actively playing someone the NCAA tells you not to play is pretty bad and unprecedented. It's an indication of a weak compliance department, and I can't imagine that the punishment will be minor.
 
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#824
#824
cncchris33 said:
You guys may as well give up the ghost in trying to argue this case with a Memphis fan who is inevitably going to struggle viewing this without a slanted perspective.

As has been stated, the poster would have a much different opinion on the matter if Wiseman had gone to Kentucky and this was taking place. Clearly, the NCAA was presented with new evidence in the matter to cause them to retroactively call into question Wiseman’s eligibility. They didn’t just arbitrarily decide to deem him ineligible without cause.

Wiseman and Memphis tried to strong arm the NCAA and it backfired, plain and simple, and Memphis will likely suffer the consequences for it at some point.
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Easily the most delusion I've seen in this forum since the Pearl debacle. Either that or absolutely no comprehension of the situation.
 
#825
#825
cncchris33 said:
You guys may as well give up the ghost in trying to argue this case with a Memphis fan who is inevitably going to struggle viewing this without a slanted perspective.

As has been stated, the poster would have a much different opinion on the matter if Wiseman had gone to Kentucky and this was taking place. Clearly, the NCAA was presented with new evidence in the matter to cause them to retroactively call into question Wiseman’s eligibility. They didn’t just arbitrarily decide to deem him ineligible without cause.

Wiseman and Memphis tried to strong arm the NCAA and it backfired, plain and simple, and Memphis will likely suffer the consequences for it at some point.
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Yeah, the notion that 2 hours before the first game the NCAA just arbitrarily changed their mind is quite entertaining. Also, I believe the "decision" by Wiseman to sue and all the UM "decisions" were based off terrible counsel by some outside-the-box attorneys.
 
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