Woke

#230
#230
LouderVol said:
the inverse of these is always fun to consider.

how would you feel about Serena Williams apologizing for being black and pointing out how the sport was built on white players who deserve more recognition?
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Where did Caitlin Clark apologize for being white?

Would have no issue whatsoever with Serena paying homage to those that built the sport, especially if they were dramatically under-discussed and underpaid relative to their Black peers. If you’re truly “considering the inverse” then there’s a lot of history that would need to be flipped too
 
#231
#231
NashVol11 said:
Where did Caitlin Clark apologize for being white? Would have no issue whatsoever with Serena paying homage to those that built the sport
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"but as a white person there is privilege" comes across pretty apologetic to me. usually those "....BUT" statements are some type of conciliatory admittance counter to, hence the BUT, to the rest of the statement, in this case "I earned it" .
 
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#232
#232
LouderVol said:
"but as a white person there is privilege" comes across pretty apologetic to me. usually those "....BUT" statements are some type of conciliatory admittance counter to, hence the BUT, to the rest of the statement, in this case "I earned it" .
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It’s a fact. Being white gets her more attention. Kelsey Plum gets more attention (especially before this year) than A’ja Wilson does, when the latter is a much better player on the same exact team. Stating a fact isn’t “apologizing” at all except to the deeply fragile
 
#233
#233
Hell, Anna Kournikova was damn near the most popular tennis player on Earth at one point for being the attractive white girl, not because she was good at tennis. Oops did I just apologize for her whiteness?
 
#234
#234
NashVol11 said:
It’s a fact. Being white gets her more attention. Kelsey Plum gets more attention (especially before this year) than A’ja Wilson does, when the latter is a much better player on the same exact team. Stating a fact isn’t “apologizing” at all except to the deeply fragile
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she could have stated that then as a fact. something like

"I have worked hard and earned everything I have. I have enjoyed special attention that I appreciate and I would like to take this moment to also point out all the other women who have built this sport up for me to have this special moment. There is more work that needs to be done getting the attention and credit out to ALL who deserve it....."
 
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#235
#235
LouderVol said:
she could have stated that then as a fact. something like

"I have worked hard and earned everything I have. I have enjoyed special attention that I appreciate and I would like to take this moment to also point out all the other women who have built this sport up for me to have this special moment. There is more work that needs to be done getting the attention and credit out to ALL who deserve it....."
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This seems pretty similar to what she said, just the “all lives matter” version where one can’t acknowledge that it’s consistently the same group of people getting less credit than they deserve
 
#236
#236
NashVol11 said:
Hell, Anna Kournikova was damn near the most popular tennis player on Earth at one point for being the attractive white girl, not because she was good at tennis. Oops did I just apologize for her whiteness?
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Ak was ranked 16th in the world at one time so she was pretty good at tennis. But yeah, being a smokeshow helped her with her career outside of tennis.
 
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#237
#237
NashVol11 said:
This seems pretty similar to what she said, just the “all lives matter” version where one can’t acknowledge that it’s consistently the same group of people getting less credit than they deserve
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Just pointing out the "but..." aspect changes the feel of the message into a conciliatory tone. and that there are other ways to get the same message across without having to apologize first which was my only point. thank you for acknowledging that.

sorry I didn't bother to type out the full speech and get into all the details that would have appeased you. I was just making a point, not changing careers to be a speech writer.
 
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#239
#239
LouderVol said:
Just pointing out the "but..." aspect changes the feel of the message into a conciliatory tone. and that there are other ways to get the same message across without having to apologize first which was my only point. thank you for acknowledging that.

sorry I didn't bother to type out the full speech and get into all the details that would have appeased you. I was just making a point, not changing careers to be a speech writer.
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I guess to me this is still being mad over nothing for the most part. If Black female tennis players were on a pedestal for years and then Serena came along, took the popularity to soaring new heights and then acknowledged her Black privilege (even with a “but”), I would not be upset by that at all
 
#240
#240
hndog609 said:
Being a smokeshow (male or female) is at least as much, if not moreso, a privilege than one's skin shade.
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Looks matter a lot more for women but that isn’t separate from color. The most popular female athletes are often the most (lighter-skinned and) conventionally attractive ones, whereas people don’t really care whether Nikola Jokic is “hot”
 
#241
#241
NashVol11 said:
Looks matter a lot more for women but that isn’t separate from color. The most popular female athletes are often the most (lighter-skinned and) conventionally attractive ones, whereas people don’t really care whether Nikola Jokic is “hot”
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I was working from the POV that no matter what you do if you're in the public eye being extra easy on the eyes absolutely helps. That doesn't necessarily mean it matters a great deal on a stat sheet in sports but it absolutely can help with all manner of other things like endorsements, merch, etc. In other areas, like entertainment/modeling it can be the actual basis for a career.
 
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#242
#242
hndog609 said:
I was working from the POV that no matter what you do if you're in the public eye being extra easy on the eyes absolutely helps. That doesn't necessarily mean it matters a great deal on a stat sheet in sports but it absolutely can help with all manner of other things like endorsements, merch, etc. In other areas, like entertainment/modeling it can be the actual basis for a career.
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That’s fair, I kinda think we’re saying two separate things that are both true.

Being attractive definitely helps with endorsements and earning potential (your point), and my point is that attractiveness takes on outsized importance for female athletes to where it becomes even MORE important to popularity, and also that what people consider “attractive” in female athletes, and why the most popular “attractive female athletes” like Kournikova, Gulbis, Plum, etc. are usually white or light-skinned, is a whole other discussion
 
#243
#243
NashVol11 said:
That’s fair, I kinda think we’re saying two separate things that are both true.

Being attractive definitely helps with endorsements and earning potential (your point), and my point is that attractiveness takes on outsized importance for female athletes to where it becomes even MORE important to popularity, and also that what people consider “attractive” in female athletes, and why the most popular “attractive female athletes” like Kournikova, Gulbis, Plum, etc. are usually white or light-skinned, is a whole other discussion
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I would agree but think that, while it's true for guys in general (Brad Pitt isn't Brad Pitt if he didn't look like Brad Pitt for instance) female hotties will often get more push for being hotties. Part of that is hot girls aren't just popular with guys...hot girls are popular with girls. Walk by a magazine rack and the section for the ladies and you'll see attractive females on a lot of covers. Probably a whole anthropological/socio conversation to be had there but upshot is hot girls (regardless of skin color) get noticed.
 
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