Would U.T. Students Be Happy With This?

#2
#2
Lecture attendance shouldn't be mandatory. If you can learn the material by reading the textbook or checking out the powerpoint online, so be it. If the professor chooses to include additional info in his oral lecture that he then tests you on, so be it.

I always despised classes that took attendance or employed pop quizzes to make students attend. Those were always the classes where lecturers essentially read aloud the notes they provided for you online.
 
#3
#3
I've seen too many students fail simply because they didn't come to class until the last quarter of the semester. Now, when I was in undergrad it was the individual's problem. But with most students being paid for by the state, it has become state money that they are wasting.

I don't have a problem with it. It isn't "Big Brother," it's class. Taking attendance is not "Big Brother."
 
#4
#4
IPorange said:
I've seen too many students fail simply because they didn't come to class until the last quarter of the semester. Now, when I was in undergrad it was the individual's problem. But with most students being paid for by the state, it has become state money that they are wasting.

I don't have a problem with it. It isn't "Big Brother," it's class. Taking attendance is not "Big Brother."
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I agree. By the way, your Habs are really working over the Pens.
 
#5
#5
RockyTopVol said:
I agree. By the way, your Habs are really working over the Pens.
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It's been a fun playoffs. I had no expectations, but we knocked out the President's Trophy winners and are giving the defending champs and best player in the league a scare. Good times.
 
#6
#6
IPorange said:
It's been a fun playoffs. I had no expectations, but we knocked out the President's Trophy winners and are giving the defending champs and best player in the league a scare. Good times.
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I truly expect to see Crosby diving and flopping in game 7.
 
#8
#8
I would hate to have attendance policies like that. If I can learn this junk out of class, there's no reason to go
 
#9
#9
lylsmorr said:
I would hate to have attendance policies like that. If I can learn this junk out of class, there's no reason to go
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I thought the same as a student, but see things very differently now that I have been on the other side of it. It works fine for some, but for every student that can get away with it, there is another that struggles and then is begging for mercy by the end of the semester.
 
#10
#10
IPorange said:
I thought the same as a student, but see things very differently now that I have been on the other side of it. It works fine for some, but for every student that can get away with it, there is another that struggles and then is begging for mercy by the end of the semester.
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That's no reason to punish others for some person's ignorance of his/her own learning style.
 
#12
#12
IPorange said:
Eh. It's as much about discipline as it is knowing the material.
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The people "begging" at the end of the semester due to their terrible grade probably can't do well because they skip. They learn better in the classroom. Others, who aren't begging at the end of the semester after skipping numerous classes, can teach themselves the material or are adept at learning from reading the notes. That's ignorance of your learning style. I know mine and have for a while
 
#13
#13
Honestly, the number of people that can skip and still excel are very, VERY low. Some still "get by," but that isn't the same.

In any case, one of the best arguments for enforcing attendance is those few students who are capable of skipping hurt the overall experience of others in the class by not being there-- not so much in large lectures, but in classes with any kind of interactive portion, which is many these days.

The days of a professor simply droning on and on in front of a power point presentation (one of the worst things to happen to education) are coming to a close.
 
#14
#14
IPorange said:
Honestly, the number of people that can skip and still excel are very, VERY low. Some still "get by," but that isn't the same.

In any case, one of the best arguments for enforcing attendance is those few students who are capable of skipping hurt the overall experience of others in the class by not being there-- not so much in large lectures, but in classes with any kind of interactive portion, which is many these days.

The days of a professor simply droning on and on in front of a power point presentation (one of the worst things to happen to education) are coming to a close.
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It's still pretty prevalent here
 
#15
#15
That's UT-Martin, I presume?

Ya, it certainly is still the majority of classes, but is heavily discouraged by education workshops and specialists. The current thinking is that the more you mix it up, the better. You can still have days where you just do the power point lecture thing, but you should mix in small group interactions, student presentations, and more interactive lecturing too. Which is where having the whole class in attendance, including the ones that are maybe quicker learners, is important.
 
#16
#16
IPorange said:
That's UT-Martin, I presume?

Ya, it certainly is still the majority of classes, but is heavily discouraged by education workshops and specialists. The current thinking is that the more you mix it up, the better. You can still have days where you just do the power point lecture thing, but you should mix in small group interactions, student presentations, and more interactive lecturing too. Which is where having the whole class in attendance, including the ones that are maybe quicker learners, is important.
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I would kill for all my classes to be interactive. I wouldn't miss a class. And yes, you are correct.
 
#17
#17
Based on my experiences of 15+ years of university teaching:

Attendance generally matters. My courses are interactive. In addition to lecture we work on projects, discuss current relevant topics, have occasional guest speakers, etc. Students learn from each other and content is created in class that doesn't come from a book or Powerpoint (which I use less and less).

Attendance alone is not enough - I try to measure engagement. Showing up and doing nothing isn't much better than not being there at all.

Finally, since I teach in the School of Business I try to model business behavior in class. Just showing up and doing assigned work will keep you your job but it won't get you noticed for significant promotions or raises. I grade attendance/participation accordingly. Making an impression and positive contribution is the only way to make an "A" on this portion of the class (up to 30% of the class for my MBA students).
 
#18
#18
i had a political science prof (nobel prize winner) who would spend the whole lecture quoting himself in the third person i.e "as jones said in chapter 2. . ." let's just say i didn't attend many of his lectures. i understand mandatory attendance for smaller classes, but for large lecture halls it doesn't make a lot of sense. particurally since a lot of schools offer online viewing of lectures.
 
#19
#19
If lecture is what you paid for: go. The more you are exposed to material, the better you learn.

If there's one misconception about learning it's that cramming/passing = real learning. What some kids pass off for 'doing well' in school is laughable.

If you receive lottery money, attendence should be mandatory.
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#20
#20
volinbham said:
Based on my experiences of 15+ years of university teaching:

Attendance generally matters. My courses are interactive. In addition to lecture we work on projects, discuss current relevant topics, have occasional guest speakers, etc. Students learn from each other and content is created in class that doesn't come from a book or Powerpoint (which I use less and less).

Attendance alone is not enough - I try to measure engagement. Showing up and doing nothing isn't much better than not being there at all.

Finally, since I teach in the School of Business I try to model business behavior in class. Just showing up and doing assigned work will keep you your job but it won't get you noticed for significant promotions or raises. I grade attendance/participation accordingly. Making an impression and positive contribution is the only way to make an "A" on this portion of the class (up to 30% of the class for my MBA students).
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I went to case methodology grad school and much of the learning is about the students around you and the diverse wealth of experience, differing POVs and knowledge base that the group brings. We had a few expository days in Operations and Finance, which were necessary for those with little experience, but the case method is why my education was worth the money. It wasn't just about the professor and his view. The best professors were knowledgeable and great facilitators.
 
#21
#21
I actually learn better by hearing than by reading books/notes. Once I figured that out college was pretty easy (also we had a killer test file). You would think I figured that out in HS when I did no homework and still got good grades but of course I didn't.
 
#22
#22
BigPapaVol said:
I went to case methodology grad school and much of the learning is about the students around you and the diverse wealth of experience, differing POVs and knowledge base that the group brings. We had a few expository days in Operations and Finance, which were necessary for those with little experience, but the case method is why my education was worth the money. It wasn't just about the professor and his view. The best professors were knowledgeable and great facilitators.
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We aren't full case method but we do leverage the experience of our students in our MBA.

About 90% are working (career type jobs). Lots of diversity (research scientists, other HC professionals, engineers, business undergrads, lib arts undergrads, some foreign, etc.). They work in diverse industries and range from 2 years work experience to 20+.

It makes for good discussion and getting past the concept into how it fits in different situations. It keeps me on my toes as well.
 
#23
#23
volinbham said:
We aren't full case method but we do leverage the experience of our students in our MBA.

About 90% are working (career type jobs). Lots of diversity (research scientists, other HC professionals, engineers, business undergrads, lib arts undergrads, some foreign, etc.). They work in diverse industries and range from 2 years work experience to 20+.

It makes for good discussion and getting past the concept into how it fits in different situations. It keeps me on my toes as well.
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The on your toes part I get. Our classes were littered with guys bent on being the exception to the rule.
 
#24
#24
utvolpj said:
I actually learn better by hearing than by reading books/notes. Once I figured that out college was pretty easy (also we had a killer test file). You would think I figured that out in HS when I did no homework and still got good grades but of course I didn't.
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My "figured it out" moments were:

1) if I paid attention in class and asked a question or two then when I crammed the night before the test, I could remember when we talked about the material - it helped tremendously

2) if I asked the prof to review my project work or at least what they were looking for they pretty much always pointed you to exactly what was important to them. I aced projects by listening to what the prof said.

Two mind numbingly simple concepts that too many students don't bother with.
 
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