Wow.... a way I would vote for McCain... Bloomberg for VP!

#78
#78
allvol123 said:
Sure. But to what degree? I am quite capable of avoiding it on my own.
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According to the CDC (who knows more than I do), it's about a 25-30% additional risk for heart disease and lung cancer.

Secondhand Smoke | OSH | CDC

You may be capable enough to avoid it on your own, but do you think the public believes it's harmful enough to avoid it on their own? I don't think everyone agrees that it's a problem - they think it's some conspiracy or some BS like that, and they're going to keep on inhaling it and harming their health and requiring more health care, etc. The more aware we are, the better.
 
#79
#79
What does being aware have to do with infringing on the rights of the private business owner?

Do you also wanted it prohibited for parents with kids in the home and/or car?

Also, in these very same restaraunts where you want it prohibited because of your "increased" risk of heart disease, do you also want the menus set up by government? You realize poor food choices can increase risks as well?
 
#80
#80
allvol123 said:
What does being aware have to do with infringing on 1) the rights of the private business owner?

2) Do you also wanted it prohibited for parents with kids in the home and/or car?

Also, in these very same restaraunts where you want it prohibited because of your "increased" risk of heart disease, do you also want the menus set up by government? 3) You realize poor food choices can increase risks as well?
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1) What right is being infringed? The right to let a minority of customers harm others? The right to propagate the idea that secondhand smoke is not harmful? The right to discriminate against non-smokers?

2) When someone eats something, the only harm (if any) is to the person consuming that food. When someone smokes, it's harming anyone around him/her who inhales it.

3) As for the home/car issue, I don't know. Perhaps we need to research it more. Child abuse is illegal. Perhaps secondhand smoke is harmful enough (especially to younger folks) that we should prohibit indoor smoking altogether (without some sort of separate room or ventilation system that makes everyone happy - they exist and do work, IMO).
 
#81
#81
TennNC said:
1) What right is being infringed? The right to let a minority of customers harm others? The right to propagate the idea that secondhand smoke is not harmful? The right to discriminate against non-smokers?
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What if a restaurant wants to cater to smokers? Smoking is legal. I can choose to patronize or avoid the restaurant. Whether or not its a "right" I don't know but it clearly is a restriction of trade.

I think a business should have the choice of whether or not to offer smoking just like they can decide to have a band or not. Some people will go there because of it, some will avoid it because of it and some will ignore it and go anyway.
 
#82
#82
TennNC said:
1) What right is being infringed? The right to let a minority of customers harm others? The right to propagate the idea that secondhand smoke is not harmful? The right to discriminate against non-smokers? The right of allowing the business owner decide to let a legal activity transpire in HIS place of business. Are these people also propagating the idea that fatty food is not harmful since they are allowed to serve it?

2) When someone eats something, the only harm (if any) is to the person consuming that food. When someone smokes, it's harming anyone around him/her who inhales it. No one is forcing any person to partonize any restaraunt. You don't like how they decide to run their place, don't eat there.

3) As for the home/car issue, I don't know. Perhaps we need to research it more. Child abuse is illegal. Perhaps secondhand smoke is harmful enough (especially to younger folks) that we should prohibit indoor smoking altogether (without some sort of separate room or ventilation system that makes everyone happy - they exist and do work, IMO).
Yep, a continual encroachment into people's personal lives. You also going to have the government concerned with overweight children? Probably a much more detrimental childhood problem than second hand smoke.
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..
 
#83
#83
volinbham said:
What if a restaurant wants to cater to smokers? Smoking is legal. I can choose to patronize or avoid the restaurant. Whether or not its a "right" I don't know but it clearly is a restriction of trade.

I think a business should have the choice of whether or not to offer smoking just like they can decide to have a band or not. Some people will go there because of it, some will avoid it because of it and some will ignore it and go anyway.
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Is a band harmful to the health of those who choose not to pay direct attention to the band?

Smoking is legal. Smoking indoors in places that are open to the public perhaps should be outlawed, b/c it's harmful to the health of those who choose not to participate in smoking. The idea is to protect the innocent (sound familiar?).

I'm all for allowing smoking as long as there is also a place for non-smokers. Get a ventilation system or make a separate area. Or, if you want to make it a completely private enterprise with membership dues, etc., then I'm all for letting one do whatever the hell they want.

But if it's open to the public, either provide a non-smoking alternative or go smoke-free. Isn't it essentially discriminating against non-smokers to not do that?
 
#84
#84
TennNC said:
But if it's open to the public, either provide a non-smoking alternative or go smoke-free. Isn't it essentially discriminating against non-smokers to not do that?
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What if it is? Who cares? People throw the term "discrimination" around like it is a plague. HE spent HIS money to open HIS business. Let him run it anyway he likes. YOU don't like it, don't visit HIS establishment.
 
#85
#85
allvol123 said:
What if it is? Who cares? People throw the term "discrimination" around like it is a plague. HE spent HIS money to open HIS business. Let him run it anyway he likes. YOU don't like it, don't visit HIS establishment.
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So you're okay with discrimination?
 
#86
#86
In terms of someone running a private business, yes. I really am for freedom.

Also, you discriminate all the time. It is to make a choice based on some factors. To discriminate based on color,sex, religion..etc, poor taste, but should not be illegal.
 
#87
#87
TennNC said:
Is a band harmful to the health of those who choose not to pay direct attention to the band?

Smoking is legal. Smoking indoors in places that are open to the public perhaps should be outlawed, b/c it's harmful to the health of those who choose not to participate in smoking. The idea is to protect the innocent (sound familiar?).

I'm all for allowing smoking as long as there is also a place for non-smokers. Get a ventilation system or make a separate area. Or, if you want to make it a completely private enterprise with membership dues, etc., then I'm all for letting one do whatever the hell they want.

But if it's open to the public, either provide a non-smoking alternative or go smoke-free. Isn't it essentially discriminating against non-smokers to not do that?
Click to expand...

A band can certainly be harmful to the hearing of some. In fact, the damage from a too loud band can happen much quicker than the exposure to second hand smoke. (one exposure to the band vs extended and repeated exposure to second hand smoke). A kid's ears could be damaged in a very brief exposure to a band.

It is not discriminating to the non-smokers to allow smoking any more than it is discriminating against people who want a quiet atmosphere to have a band. It is a choice of the business.

Having separate areas clearly isn't sufficient for many since they demand a complete smoking ban.

I think most bar/restaurant owners would be okay with having separate areas but often the law says they cannot.
 
#88
#88
Here's an idea - restaurants should not allow people with colds or other contagious diseases to enter. We need to protect the healthy from the viral menace of the sick :)
 
#90
#90
volinbham said:
Here's an idea - restaurants should not allow people with colds or other contagious diseases to enter. We need to protect the healthy from the viral menace of the sick :)
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they also shouldn't allow pregnant women. who wants to be enjoying their meal and have to deal with the prospect of a kid getting downloaded, with all the attendant mushiness, in the booth next to yours.
 
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