wow obama "should we comprimise safety so some corporate jet owner gets a tax break"

#51
#51
actually, eliminating the Bush tax cuts on all but the top tier would bring in more than 3x the revenue
 
#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
I don't think the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy hurt the economy.

On the flip side, I think that the evidence that in the current environment continuing them would help the economy is extremely thin. Nonexistent, really.
The question is one of policy. If, in the interests of paying down the debt, we are going to cut a trillion dollars from programs that benefit the lower and middle classes, then it seems only fair we eliminate tax breaks for enormously wealthy corporations and the top 1 percent of income earners.

As I've said earlier, it doesn't even have to be an even match. I'd take 2 for 1.

So, for the trillion in cuts, I'd say eliminating tax breaks for the very top to the tune of $500 billion would make sense.

And right now, like it or not, Obama has really outflanked the GOP on this. If it doesn't happen and the debt ceiling is not raised because no deal can be made on just half in tax break rollback what was made in cuts, I think the GOP suffers HUGE in the polls.
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basic economic theory LG. multiplier effects and the like. obviously it will hurt the economy. this cannot be debated. the debate is HOW MUCH it will hurt the economy.

i think you seriously overestimate the american people's dislike of govt spending. no amount of "billy might eat dirty lettuce and die" talk is going to get obama on the right side of this. he's the one who will get killed if this continues.

and pray tell how do you only eliminate tax breaks for the ultra wealthy corporations? this isn't the way corporate taxes work. you are talking about reinventing the corporate tax code.
 
#53
#53
MG1968 said:
actually, eliminating the Bush tax cuts on all but the top tier would bring in more than 3x the revenue
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So your solution is to cut the programs that benefit the lower and middle classes AND increase their effective tax rates, whilst leaving the top alone, or even giving them more breaks?

Brilliant.
 
#54
#54
droski said:
no amount of "billy might eat dirty lettuce and die" talk is going to get obama on the right side of this. he's the one who will get killed if this continues.
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And I think you underestimate the effect of how powerful the image is of government shutdown, including checks people rely on to subsist, at the same time that bank execs get bonuses in the hundreds of millions.
 
#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
So your solution is to cut the programs that benefit the lower and middle classes AND increase their effective tax rates, whilst leaving the top alone, or even giving them more breaks?

Brilliant.
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evidence they are cutting the programs that benefit lower and middle class? social security and medicare certainly aren't two of those.
 
#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
And I think you underestimate the effect of how powerful the image is of government shutdown, including checks people rely on to subsist, at the same time that bank execs get bonuses in the hundreds of millions.
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you seriously think the american people will blame the republicans and not the man in charge if there is a govt shutdown? and what bank execs have gotten hundreds of millions of bonuses recently. list them.
 
#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
And I think you underestimate the effect of how powerful the image is of government shutdown, including checks people rely on to subsist, at the same time that bank execs get bonuses in the hundreds of millions.
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hey, there you go again, invoking class warfare
 
#59
#59
ToineMac said:
So pointing out that rich people have all the money is class warfare? The fact is thats one of those words meant to incite hostility. Before the Bush tax cuts were in place the economy was in a better place. Maybe not for the richest of people but definitely for the rest of us.
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You really think the tax cuts are the primary reason for the downturn? The train was already down the tracks by that time.
 
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#63
#63
droski said:
you did argue they hurt the economy and i'd like to hear the basis for that theory.
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I did not. Actually i stated that the economy was in a better place before them. I did not say the cuts themselves caused collapse. I do think that when the cuts were made unemployment was lower, more income and sales taxes were being paid. Government had more money to use. Now unemployment is higher. People aren't really spending. Less money for government spending and repealing those tax cuts would help that. I don't even begin to think i know a lot about how the economy works so i couldn't tell you what caused it to go into recession.
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#64
#64
ToineMac said:
I did not actually i stated that the economy was in a better place before them. I did not say the cuts themselves caused collapse. I do think that when the cuts were made unemployment was lower, more income and sales taxes were being paid. Government had more money to use. Now unemployment is higher. People aren't really spending. Less money for government spending and repealing those tax cuts would help that. I don't even begin to think i know a lot about how the economy works so i couldn't tell you what caused it to go into recession.
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wait a minute. you think raising taxes gives people more money to spend?
 
#65
#65
droski said:
wait a minute. you think raising taxes gives people more money to spend?
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No but it gives the government more money to spend. I should have stated that. I wasn't giving an opinion on how to turn around the economy. I'm not an economist so really i don't know. But people argue that if we cut government spending we don't have to raise taxes. But now we are cutting into places that are essential for the government to run. Instead of trying to cut everything to make, we should raise taxes so the government can operate. That is all i'm saying.
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#66
#66
ToineMac said:
No but it gives the government more money to spend. I should have stated that. I wasn't giving an opinion on how to turn around the economy. I'm not an economist so really i don't know. But people argue that if we cut government spending we don't have to raise taxes. But now we are cutting into places that are essential for the government to run. Instead of trying to cut everything to make, we should raise taxes so the government can operate. That is all i'm saying.
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what's your evidence we are cutting into places taht are essential for the govt to run?
 
#67
#67
ToineMac said:
No but it gives the government more money to spend. I should have stated that. I wasn't giving an opinion on how to turn around the economy. I'm not an economist so really i don't know. But people argue that if we cut government spending we don't have to raise taxes. But now we are cutting into places that are essential for the government to run. Instead of trying to cut everything to make, we should raise taxes so the government can operate. That is all i'm saying.
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who's taxes should be raised, the 10% of the population that's already paying more than 70% of the tax revenue or the 50+% that's paying barely 10% of tax revenue? (my percentages may be off just a tad)
 
#69
#69
droski said:
you seriously think the american people will blame the republicans and not the man in charge if there is a govt shutdown? and what bank execs have gotten hundreds of millions of bonuses recently. list them.
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The way the debate has been set up so far, I am certain of it.

You can blame the TP for it, by the way. Boehner and the mainstream GOP would take $300 billion in tax increases (or closing loopholes or rolling back previous breaks, however you want to characterize it) for a trillion in cuts and claim victory.

But Cantor & Co. won't do it. And its going to come down to the inability of Boehner to muster enough votes to pass a compromise in the waning hours. Because the TP won't let him.

Its an interesting dynamic. Will be fun to watch the House majority implode on itself.
 
#70
#70
you mean the way obama has set up the debate. you are in serious denile if you think the american people buy his BS at this point.
 
#71
#71
MG1968 said:
who's taxes should be raised, the 10% of the population that's already paying more than 70% of the tax revenue or the 50+% that's paying barely 10% of tax revenue? (my percentages may be off just a tad)
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I'm not sure of the percentages either but i've read that the top 20 percent control 85 percent of the wealth too but i think everyone should pay more if it comes down to it. I'm not anti rich people. I'd like to be one of them someday. What are some of you guys thoughts?
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#73
#73
ToineMac said:
I'm not sure of the percentages either but i've read that the top 20 percent control 85 percent of the wealth too but i think everyone should pay more if it comes down to it. I'm not anti rich people. I'd like to be one of them someday. What are some of you guys thoughts?
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then surely you'd be in favor of a flat tax?
 
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