Year Two: win a bowl game or go sit in the hot seat

#351
#351
Tennsolider1 said:
Whoever started this topic is a idiot lol. All these TENNESSEE fans were talking about how good a coach Cutcliffe was, but he wouldn't have been here to BUILD A PROGRAM with the way some of our fans think. Building a program takes time and more time. Our freshman man have been great in high school but this isn't high school. Freshman vs Seniors and Juniors isn't a good match up. CBJ is doing what he needs to do to bring in good recruits. Time will tell if he's a good coach. Cutcliffe is a GREAT coach that taught a lot of low * kids how to play ball. Instead of putting a time limit of what needs to happen, sit back and enjoy the show. It will be much sweeter that way. Haven't we had enough coaches for a while. Who will be y'all next choice if y'all have it y'all's way???? CBJ was a winner and will be again.
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Alot of us believe in CBJ and also believe he will bring us back to relevance, but also vent about the need for more improvement in year two......just like there are fans on here that will deny themselves even the idea of getting better year 2.....but SEC title in 2016(??). It takes all of us to make up our great fan base. I believe in CBJ...but know that he needs to get us to a bowl to continue to build
 
#352
#352
6 wins this year, 7 or 8 in 2015 and >8 in 2016 should be acceptable standards for the next 3 years. That would put us competing for the SEC EAST crown in 2017. I believe most fans would take that progression.
 
#354
#354
beneVOLence said:
6 wins this year, 7 or 8 in 2015 and >8 in 2016 should be acceptable standards for the next 3 years. That would put us competing for the SEC EAST crown in 2017. I believe most fans would take that progression.
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2017 to compete for the East? No, I don't think fans would be happy at all. That's ridiculous to even think that.
 
#356
#356
As forgiving as fans are now, they will be the same people turning up the heat in December if this team does not make a bowl game. Butch botched 3 games last year that kept us out of a bowl game. In 2014 it will be a requirement.
 
#358
#358
checkerboards09 said:
Realism? If Butch is the man we'll be competing for the East by next year, not when the '14 class are all Seniors during the '17 season.
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So if your wrong, and he doesnt compete for the east next year but shows continuous improvement. He obviously not the guy for the job huh.? So start the process over again and fire him. Lets see where that leads us.
 
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#359
#359
BigTCountry said:
So if your wrong, and he doesnt compete for the east next year but shows continuous improvement. He obviously not the guy for the job huh.? So start the process over again and fire him. Lets see where that leads us.
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I'd be ok with a 9 win season in '15 and not getting blown out in losses, but I still think '15 needs to be the year when we're at least on the brink of the East conversation.
 
#360
#360
onevol74 said:
As forgiving as fans are now, they will be the same people turning up the heat in December if this team does not make a bowl game. Butch botched 3 games last year that kept us out of a bowl game. In 2014 it will be a requirement.
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Botched 3 games how exactly?

Florida = started Peterman.

Name the other 2
 
#361
#361
Tennsolider1 said:
Whoever started this topic is a idiot lol. All these TENNESSEE fans were talking about how good a coach Cutcliffe was, but he wouldn't have been here to BUILD A PROGRAM with the way some of our fans think. Building a program takes time and more time. Our freshman man have been great in high school but this isn't high school. Freshman vs Seniors and Juniors isn't a good match up. CBJ is doing what he needs to do to bring in good recruits. Time will tell if he's a good coach. Cutcliffe is a GREAT coach that taught a lot of low * kids how to play ball. Instead of putting a time limit of what needs to happen, sit back and enjoy the show. It will be much sweeter that way. Haven't we had enough coaches for a while. Who will be y'all next choice if y'all have it y'all's way???? CBJ was a winner and will be again.
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No. The idiots are those who think a coach can be in a program for 2-4 years and have losing records then suddenly become a championship coach. NO ONE expects Jones to go from 5 wins to the SEC CG... well no reasonable person does. Nor does a reasonable person expect him to survive if he can't start winning more games. More... a "reasonable" more... this fall is 6 wins. That is NOT a goal/standard too great for "the guy" that UT needs to resurrect the program.

No time limit? That is equivalent to no expectations, right? Improvement doesn't happen by accident. EVERY improvement effort has a timeframe, performance metrics, benchmarks for improvement, and STANDARDS.

If yours is the mentality... then there will be nothing to "enjoy" unless you enjoy 4-5 win seasons and losses to bad teams.
 
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#363
#363
sjt18 said:
Realism? He didn't even say win the East... just be competitive for it. If he has not done that by '17... he won't do it at all.
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You know how it is around here. It's too much too ask if you think we should be back in the Big 3 of the East in less than 5 years with a new HC.
 
#364
#364
BigTCountry said:
So if your wrong, and he doesnt compete for the east next year but shows continuous improvement. He obviously not the guy for the job huh.? So start the process over again and fire him. Lets see where that leads us.
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Next year is '15. Competing for the East would be having a shot to win it and finishing 5-3 or so, right? You are saying that should take until '17... to even be in the conversation?

You said you played college football. I didn't. I wasn't fast enough. But I did play for a very, very good HS program that has won several state championships including one when I played.

My question is did you ever play for a winner?

I will answer your question directly. If Jones does not have the Vols in serious contention for at least the SEC East within 5 years then he's not "the guy" unless your goal and expectation is to be an "also ran". If you want a championship program then he'll prove himself to be a championship coach and it won't take 10 years. It will take 5 or less.
 
#365
#365
tm3 said:
i disagree.

CDD had about 62 scholarship players, due to attrition. CBJ had a full roster.

CDD's team got notoriety for all of the freshmen playing, especially the O line. CBJ inherited an experienced, partially NFL quality O line.

the big difference imo was the quality of the coaching staff -- CDDs > CBJs (head coach excluded, as no one can match CDDs ineptitude).
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The scholarship thing isnt a valid argument. Obviously Dooley was hired right before signing day, so the opportunity to hand out scholarships to deserving unclaimed players was limited. HOWEVER, the quality of the the players that had those 62 scholarships was decidedly better than what CBJ inherited. CDD had Bray, Hunter and Rogers. that alone make his offense way better than what CBJ had. CBJ may have had a more experience (although woefully underperforming) OL, but he had guys that could throw, catch, and run the football. CBJ did not have that last year.

I dont know if CDD had better coordinators yet. That's to be seen.
 
#366
#366
sjt18 said:
Next year is '15. Competing for the East would be having a shot to win it and finishing 5-3 or so, right? You are saying that should take until '17... to even be in the conversation?

You said you played college football. I didn't. I wasn't fast enough. But I did play for a very, very good HS program that has won several state championships including one when I played.

My question is did you ever play for a winner?

I will answer your question directly. If Jones does not have the Vols in serious contention for at least the SEC East within 5 years then he's not "the guy" unless your goal and expectation is to be an "also ran". If you want a championship program then he'll prove himself to be a championship coach and it won't take 10 years. It will take 5 or less.
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Tennessee will be back no later than 2016 and they should do very well to compete in 2015.

Keep in mind how Tennessee will do against the backdrop of the SEC east. Spurier should be retiring soon. Richt is now in the same position as Fulmer was in late in his career and Mack Brown was just in. I dont anticipate him being head coach for many more years. Muschamp I would anticipate is not the long-term coach of Florida either. I see all three of those programs currently as being on the decline. Tennessee (had better be) on the incline and I dont see any reason right now to doubt that they are.

If things go really bad at Florida this year and Spurrier calls it a career soon, I expect Tennessee to be firmly in the top two of the SEC east by 2016.

But you do have to remember that CBJ is the only coach who has ever had to clean up after Derek Dooley. Dont underestimate how much bleach it will take to clean that mess. In my opinion he deserves at least a little more runway because of that fact.
 
#367
#367
sjt18 said:
Next year is '15. Competing for the East would be having a shot to win it and finishing 5-3 or so, right? You are saying that should take until '17... to even be in the conversation?

You said you played college football. I didn't. I wasn't fast enough. But I did play for a very, very good HS program that has won several state championships including one when I played.

My question is did you ever play for a winner?

I will answer your question directly. If Jones does not have the Vols in serious contention for at least the SEC East within 5 years then he's not "the guy" unless your goal and expectation is to be an "also ran". If you want a championship program then he'll prove himself to be a championship coach and it won't take 10 years. It will take 5 or less.
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Then i Agree with you :good!: 5 years or less is a good time frame for competing/winning the east 1-2 years possibly three could be too soon to have that expectation of competing/winning the east but it should be clear that we are pressing towards that goal. Yes, FYI during my time playing we competed for one championship other than that we had winning records but didnt make it to the big game.
 
#368
#368
MWAVolfan said:
Tennessee will be back no later than 2016 and they should do very well to compete in 2015.

Keep in mind how Tennessee will do against the backdrop of the SEC east. Spurier should be retiring soon. Richt is now in the same position as Fulmer was in late in his career and Mack Brown was just in. I dont anticipate him being head coach for many more years. Muschamp I would anticipate is not the long-term coach of Florida either. I see all three of those programs currently as being on the decline. Tennessee (had better be) on the incline and I dont see any reason right now to doubt that they are.

If things go really bad at Florida this year and Spurrier calls it a career soon, I expect Tennessee to be firmly in the top two of the SEC east by 2016.

But you do have to remember that CBJ is the only coach who has ever had to clean up after Derek Dooley. Dont underestimate how much bleach it will take to clean that mess. In my opinion he deserves at least a little more runway because of that fact.
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I look for a big improvement from Florida this year. New offensive co-ord (Kurt Roper-Cutcliffe disciple) ,and a strong defense.
 
#369
#369
MWAVolfan said:
Tennessee will be back no later than 2016 and they should do very well to compete in 2015.

Keep in mind how Tennessee will do against the backdrop of the SEC east. Spurier should be retiring soon. Richt is now in the same position as Fulmer was in late in his career and Mack Brown was just in. I dont anticipate him being head coach for many more years. Muschamp I would anticipate is not the long-term coach of Florida either. I see all three of those programs currently as being on the decline. Tennessee (had better be) on the incline and I dont see any reason right now to doubt that they are.

If things go really bad at Florida this year and Spurrier calls it a career soon, I expect Tennessee to be firmly in the top two of the SEC east by 2016.

But you do have to remember that CBJ is the only coach who has ever had to clean up after Derek Dooley. Dont underestimate how much bleach it will take to clean that mess. In my opinion he deserves at least a little more runway because of that fact.
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Dooley had to attempt to clean up behind Kiffin and Fulmer. I believe your angst is misplaced. Dooley failed but is more worthy of pity than hate. (FTR, I'd rather be hated than pitied)

What you said could play out. However I'd like for all three of those coaches to stay in place. The natural state of the SECE is the big 3 on top.

IMHO, USCe's rise has been as much a function of the big 3 having problems all at once than them getting a ton better. They also had the advantage over the other three of playing easier West opponents. I also believe the difference between losing and winning those close games over the past 6 years has been nothing more nor less than Spurrier. When he's gone, I think they'll sink like a rock.

UF will replace Muschamp with a big name coach. It is a high profile job due to the abundance of home state talent. Lord forbid that UGA should find a great coach.
 
#370
#370
BigTCountry said:
Then i Agree with you :good!: 5 years or less is a good time frame for competing/winning the east 1-2 years possibly three could be too soon to have that expectation of competing/winning the east but it should be clear that we are pressing towards that goal. Yes, FYI during my time playing we competed for one championship other than that we had winning records but didnt make it to the big game.
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I think it will take breaks for the Vols to win the East in '15 but they should be a talented and experienced team by then. They should at least be in the conversation.... statistically "in it" going into the last 1/3 of the season.

One of the things that I tend to get arguments over though is that what happens in years like this one... do have the potential to demonstrate whether or not Jones has the ability to do what we are talking about. Six wins to me... would be a good sign. Seven plus would be a GREAT sign. Five would cast doubts. Four... well... I wouldn't have much doubt.
 
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#371
#371
BTW, Meyer pretty much left a mess at UF and USCe had been down for years when SOS arrived.
 
#372
#372
sjt18 said:
I think it will take breaks for the Vols to win the East in '15 but they should be a talented and experienced team by then. They should at least be in the conversation.... statistically "in it" going into the last 1/3 of the season.

One of the things that I tend to get arguments over though is that what happens in years like this one... do have the potential to demonstrate whether or not Jones has the ability to do what we are talking about. Six wins to me... would be a good sign. Seven plus would be a GREAT sign. Five would cast doubts. Four... well... I wouldn't have much doubt.
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True this will be a tough year, and although many of us want to forecast how it should go.. I think this is a big year that will make forecasting the VOLS and CBJ next year and years to come much easier. To see how prepared our young lineman are and to see how well our qb/wru improved from last year, not talent wise necessarily, but technicalities of each individual position will show alot of what this coaching staff is made of and what kind of players they will send to battle. :peace2: did we just agree on something? GO VOLS
 
#373
#373
MWAVolfan said:
The scholarship thing isnt a valid argument. Obviously Dooley was hired right before signing day, so the opportunity to hand out scholarships to deserving unclaimed players was limited. HOWEVER, the quality of the the players that had those 62 scholarships was decidedly better than what CBJ inherited. CDD had Bray, Hunter and Rogers. that alone make his offense way better than what CBJ had.
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You have confused your history. DD signed those 3 in '10. Hunter and Rogers weren't key players that fall. G Jones and D Moore plus Stocker carried the load. The OL was horrible. DD didn't inherit a QB that had been on the roster the year before. He started out with a terrible JUCO in Simms then went to Bray when Chaney got him even marginally ready.

CBJ may have had a more experience (although woefully underperforming) OL, but he had guys that could throw, catch, and run the football. CBJ did not have that last year.
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See the QB comment above. Poole < Neal and Lane. DD did have better experience at WR but BJ had about as much "talent". He has far more WR talent than DD ever had going into this fall.

I dont know if CDD had better coordinators yet. That's to be seen.
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I like the OC. I liked Chaney.

I'd take Wilcox back in a bat of the eye.
 
#374
#374
BigTCountry said:
True this will be a tough year, and although many of us want to forecast how it should go.. I think this is a big year that will make forecasting the VOLS and CBJ next year and years to come much easier. To see how prepared our young lineman are and to see how well our qb/wru improved from last year, not talent wise necessarily, but technicalities of each individual position will show alot of what this coaching staff is made of and what kind of players they will send to battle. :peace2: did we just agree on something? GO VOLS
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Truth be known... if we sat and had a cup of coffee discussing this stuff we'd probably agree on almost everything. People here say things about me based on our arguments here that people who actually know me would laugh at. I'm sure I've drawn some false impressions too. The best things about this is we can have fun, keep up with the Vols, and express our passion for the Big Orange.

I've had to tell people who seemed to get hurt personally here that this is fun for me... a distraction from real stresses and problems. When it stops being fun... and starts being really hateful or spiteful on my part... I'll stop doing it.

..... I've been here almost 8 years now. :salute:
 
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#375
#375
sjt18 said:
Truth be known... if we sat and had a cup of coffee discussing this stuff we'd probably agree on almost everything. People here say things about me based on our arguments here that people who actually know me would laugh at. I'm sure I've drawn some false impressions too. The best things about this is we can have fun, keep up with the Vols, and express our passion for the Big Orange.

I've had to tell people who seemed to get hurt personally here that this is fun for me... a distraction from real stresses and problems. When it stops being fun... and starts being really hateful or spiteful on my part... I'll stop doing it.

..... I've been here 9 years now. :salute:
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This!:yess:
 
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