Year Two: win a bowl game or go sit in the hot seat

#301
#301
ajvol01 said:
Apples and oranges

Fulmer didn't rebuild anything...he took a perennial top 10 program and elevated to a top 5 and national championship program followed by 10 yrs of mostly top 10 program.

Butch's job is much closer to Johnny's rebuild after Battle...and tougher IMO than Phil's
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This is horse**** too.

We weren't a perennial top 10 program under Johnny. We had 1986.

Phil took over the program he helped build, and the change was dramatic when he became OC and recruiting coordinator. Those of us who lived through the Johnny years remember.

I love Johnny Majors. I will never say a bad word about the man. I love his whiskey drinking, his stories, his persona, I even love the feud with Fulmer because it is SO gothic southern / Faulkner-esque / Tennessee Williams. It's so US.

But the fact is, Fulmer built his best teams, he took over, and he made them even better. That's no insult to Johnny; it's just how it is.
 
#302
#302
Eddie Vol Halen said:
This is horse**** too.

We weren't a perennial top 10 program under Johnny. We had 1986.

Phil took over the program he helped build, and the change was dramatic when he became OC and recruiting coordinator. Those of us who lived through the Johnny years remember.

I love Johnny Majors. I will never say a bad word about the man. I love his whiskey drinking, his stories, his persona, I even love the feud with Fulmer because it is SO gothic southern / Faulkner-esque / Tennessee Williams. It's so US.

But the fact is, Fulmer built his best teams, he took over, and he made them even better. That's no insult to Johnny; it's just how it is.
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You're delusional.

1989 #5 / #5
1990 #7 / #8
1991 #15 / #14
1992 #12 / #12

Some of the most talented teams in my 30+ years watching the Vols play football.

Includes 2 SEC co-Championships
 
#303
#303
ajvol01 said:
Apples and oranges

Fulmer didn't rebuild anything...he took a perennial top 10 program and elevated to a top 5 and national championship program followed by 10 yrs of mostly top 10 program.

Butch's job is much closer to Johnny's rebuild after Battle...and tougher IMO than Phil's
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But.....we fired the man after a lifetime of either playing/coaching and winning.....yet many are content with that decision to fire CPF...yet say that its cool if CBJ has 3-4 years to get us back to 7-5??? or even 6-6 in year 2?...then on the same breath make "fatPhil" jokes....Tell you what....I'm inspired by CBJ, his attitude, his recruiting. But each off season I find myself watching youtube and CPF's last presser....then go on VN to read babble about reasons why we can't get to a bowl game...It's a rebuild,yes...but a bowl game in year 2???? come on. "gets it" need's to "ON FIELD" coach it.
 
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#304
#304
sjt18 said:
A losing record again this fall will hurt recruiting. Even if you are right... you are still wrong. Recruits don't really care why you haven't had a winning season in 6 years or why the "new" HC has just had a 2nd losing season in his first two. They want to win and be given elite coaching that gives them their best shot at the NFL.
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With all due respect, then how did you get last years recruits?
 
#305
#305
GrowVol said:
But.....we fired the man after a lifetime of either playing/coaching and winning.....yet many are content with that decision to fire CPF...yet say that its cool if CBJ has 3-4 years to get us back to 7-5??? or even 6-6 in year 2?...then on the same breath make "fatPhil" jokes....Tell you what....I'm inspired by CBJ, his attitude, his recruiting. But each off season I find myself watching youtube and CPF's last presser....then go on VN to read babble about reasons why we can't get to a bowl game...It's a rebuild,yes...but a bowl game in year 2???? come on. "gets it" need's to "ON FIELD" coach it.
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Butch is in yr 2. We have stunk on ice for 6 yrs.

I can be objective about the teams' attitude, effort and improvement without setting a hard line for W-L record.

Replace Oklahoma with UAB or Buffalo and yes 6 wins is the minimum, but we didn't buy out Oregon last year or Oklahoma this year.

Patience is hard to come by, but based on recruiting results alone Butch has already earned that from my perspective.

2013 Georgia and South Carolina games were 2 of the best environments and 60 minute efforts I have seen since 2006.

We got worse in experience and better in talent over this offseason. That doesn't normally equate to improved W-L record.

So I am judging this season's success based on how competitive we are - not strictly based on wins and losses.
 
#306
#306
Yes or no question: would you be happy THIS year with a 7 win season (bowl game included)

My answer is hell yes
 
#308
#308
In hindsight Fulmer for Kiffin was a horrendous choice. That should not be debated anymore. It happened and we find ourselves in a place that is very uncomfortable. We have great facilities, great fans and a great product to offer players. Getting from bad to decent will not be as hard as getting from decent to great. We will know in a couple of years if Butch is the guy and I will support him 100% until he shows me he is not. Next year bowl win mandate is not the line in the sand. The 2015 recruiting class will be much more telling as well as the 2015 season.
 
#309
#309
ajvol01 said:
Butch is in yr 2. We have stunk on ice for 6 yrs.

I can be objective about the teams' attitude, effort and improvement without setting a hard line for W-L record.

Replace Oklahoma with UAB or Buffalo and yes 6 wins is the minimum, but we didn't buy out Oregon last year or Oklahoma this year.

Patience is hard to come by, but based on recruiting results alone Butch has already earned that from my perspective.

2013 Georgia and South Carolina games were 2 of the best environments and 60 minute efforts I have seen since 2006.

We got worse in experience and better in talent over this offseason. That doesn't normally equate to improved W-L record.

So I am judging this season's success based on how competitive we are - not strictly based on wins and losses.
Click to expand...

I am right there with you.:hi:
 
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#310
#310
MWAVolfan said:
Dooley had a better team in 2010 that what Jones had last year.
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i disagree.

CDD had about 62 scholarship players, due to attrition. CBJ had a full roster.

CDD's team got notoriety for all of the freshmen playing, especially the O line. CBJ inherited an experienced, partially NFL quality O line.

the big difference imo was the quality of the coaching staff -- CDDs > CBJs (head coach excluded, as no one can match CDDs ineptitude).
 
#311
#311
ajvol01 said:
Butch is in yr 2. We have stunk on ice for 6 yrs.

I can be objective about the teams' attitude, effort and improvement without setting a hard line for W-L record.

Replace Oklahoma with UAB or Buffalo and yes 6 wins is the minimum, but we didn't buy out Oregon last year or Oklahoma this year.

Patience is hard to come by, but based on recruiting results alone Butch has already earned that from my perspective.

2013 Georgia and South Carolina games were 2 of the best environments and 60 minute efforts I have seen since 2006.

We got worse in experience and better in talent over this offseason. That doesn't normally equate to improved W-L record.

So I am judging this season's success based on how competitive we are - not strictly based on wins and losses.
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I agree...but competive like glimpses we saw last season should become consistent enough this season to get to a bowl.
 
#312
#312
thebjd said:
In hindsight Fulmer for Kiffin was a horrendous choice. That should not be debated anymore. It happened and we find ourselves in a place that is very uncomfortable. We have great facilities, great fans and a great product to offer players. Getting from bad to decent will not be as hard as getting from decent to great. We will know in a couple of years if Butch is the guy and I will support him 100% until he shows me he is not. Next year bowl win mandate is not the line in the sand. The 2015 recruiting class will be much more telling as well as the 2015 season.
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Just curious if you say that because of how it ended or what Kiffin did during the season.

Don't get me wrong, he's a weasel and I hate him. But, I thought he produced a good product. At the time, I was excited prior to his departure. Of course, it was only later we found out what a real piece of work he is.
 
#313
#313
GrowVol said:
I agree...but competive like glimpses we saw last season should become consistent enough this season to get to a bowl.
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That's where all if the youth and inexperience comes into play IMO.

IMO it will be very challenging to achieve/maintain consistency with a group made up mostly of guys that have never played at this level (much less won at this level).
 
#315
#315
ImportedVoL said:
I truly feel sorry for some of you guys.. not going to name people but you know who you are.. you have such a dim and pessimistic view about everything that it truly makes me feel sorry for you. I do not know what has happened in your life to make you feel so down about everything but I am here for you. If you need a shoulder to cry on just send me a PM and I will be happy to try and help you through some of that darkness that surrounds you. Your view on life has a lot to do with what you get out of it, and if you just tried to look a little brighter about some things, it could turn things around for you a great deal.. If you do not want to talk with me, I definitely suggest listening to some of the free podcasts of Inky Johnsons Inkspirations he does everyday at 5pm. I know they help me a great deal, maybe they can do something for you also.

Even if we argue sometimes, I still love all of my vol brothers and sisters and wish you the best. Come back to the light side of the force, it is much better over here.
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It's almost like a Twilight Zone around here. The so-called "nega-Vols" are saying there is no reason UT shouldn't make a bowl game this season while the "sunshine pumpers" are saying anything above a 5-7 season is gravy. :crazy:
 
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#316
#316
jps2194 said:
Just curious if you say that because of how it ended or what Kiffin did during the season.

Don't get me wrong, he's a weasel and I hate him. But, I thought he produced a good product. At the time, I was excited prior to his departure. Of course, it was only later we found out what a real piece of work he is.
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Because of how it ended. I am not going lie and act like 2009 wasn't a good time.
 
#318
#318
ajvol01 said:
You're delusional.

1989 #5 / #5
1990 #7 / #8
1991 #15 / #14
1992 #12 / #12

Some of the most talented teams in my 30+ years watching the Vols play football.

Includes 2 SEC co-Championships
Click to expand...

Those were good times to be a Vol fan, but 88 was hard to watch.
 
#321
#321
ajvol01 said:
No doubt - 88 was an absolute train wreck. Much like 86...loss to Army was baaaad
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I will never forget the '88 Bama game...not for the outcome but the experience. I lived in Lenoir City, was a JR in HS at the time and the parents were out of town on a cruise.

Saturday morning, my oldest brother, who is at UT, called me to go to the game so I drove to his apt. above the coliseum (forget the name). I get there and we call our other brother who is also at UT and we agree to all meet at the Kappa Sig house after the game.

It turns out we were all sitting in the same area (section DD). It was a great day although UT lost to Bama, but they did win their final 5 games of the season.

I'm pretty sure that was my 1st frat party but it was fun having the non-frat brother and the frat-brother all partying together.
 
#324
#324
ajvol01 said:
You're delusional.

1989 #5 / #5
1990 #7 / #8
1991 #15 / #14
1992 #12 / #12

Some of the most talented teams in my 30+ years watching the Vols play football.

Includes 2 SEC co-Championships
Click to expand...

Funny how those coincided with Fulmer being elevated to #2, as I said.
 
#325
#325
I'd say Bajakian or Jancek are the ones that should worry the most. Depending on the situation, our Offense or Defense could bail us out for some wins. Butch will get a 3rd year regardless what happens.

If we make another QB change (hurt or not hurt) and our 2nd string is terrible ,Butch has to make a change at OC. If not, than we will be doomed. Bajakian is the QB coach. This is why it blows my mind when they say they don't know who their QB is. A good OC should call plays that work with the strength of their players out there IMO. A system OC calls plays where hopefully the players will execute to the fullest.

If our Defense becomes slop again, we'll need to make a change but maybe just a position coach.
 
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