Yes, It Was a Coup Attempt. Here’s Why.

#401
#401
tnmarktx said:
State legislators have the sole power of whether or not to certify their elections regardless of what the laws are. They can reject the outcome if they see fraud.
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I think you are wrong about that. The legislatures pass laws governing local election commissions, which are empowered to count the votes. Questions of fraud are decided by courts.
 
#403
#403
Vol Main said:
I think you are wrong about that. The legislatures pass laws governing local election commissions, which are empowered to count the votes. Questions of fraud are decided by courts.
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State legislatures can investigate election fraud and can decertify their elections.
 
#406
#406
tnmarktx said:
You are correct, it was sent by a number of individual officials. Would your mind be changed if it had been by senate leaders? Now that senate leaders support auditing the 2020 election, do you support those?
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No it would not change my mind if it was sent by senate/legislature leaders acting in their individual capacity.

What might change my mind is if it had been an official act of the legislative body, passed by vote according to the rules of that legislative body, and which that the legislative body had the constitutional and statutory authority to take.

The Eastman memo is evidence of an attempt to overturn the election and, re: competing body of electors, it fails at all three steps of that analysis. That’s an attempted coup.

Regarding the audits: It seems like a propaganda effort to grease the skids for the next attempted coup. If they are being done for any other purpose, then they are being handled in a way that is imprudent. I do not have any reason to think they are either illegal or unconstitutional.
 
#408
#408
RockyTop85 said:
No it would not change my mind if it was sent by senate/legislature leaders acting in their individual capacity.

What might change my mind is if it had been an official act of the legislative body, passed by vote according to the rules of that legislative body, and which that the legislative body had the constitutional and statutory authority to take.

The Eastman memo is evidence of an attempt to overturn the election and, re: competing body of electors, it fails at all three steps of that analysis. That’s an attempted coup.

Regarding the audits: It seems like a propaganda effort to grease the skids for the next attempted coup. If they are being done for any other purpose, then they are being handled in a way that is imprudent. I do not have any reason to think they are either illegal or unconstitutional.
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That's what I figured. You do not support state legislature powers over their elections as the constitution provides. You would rather have elections that can or may be fraudulent as long as they go your way, one can only presume. There was no coup attempt as you claim there to be.
 
#411
#411
tnmarktx said:
Can be exercised in anyway they see fit. As a representative of what the people want, as they are elected.
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Once they’ve passed a law or state constitutional provision that says they have to exercise it a certain way, they are bound by that, until it is repealed or amended. This is just fundamental civics you’re failing at.

tnmarktx said:
That's what I figured. You do not support state legislature powers over their elections as the constitution provides. You would rather have elections that can or may be fraudulent as long as they go your way, one can only presume. There was no coup attempt as you claim there to be.
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I too am disappointed when somebody says something that negates a pre-cooked zinger, but I can’t recall ever having been disappointed enough to still use it and just hope nobody noticed that it doesn’t make any sense.
 
#412
#412
tnmarktx said:
According to the constitution. State legislatures have supreme power over their elections.
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But those are your words, which ignore the fact that every legislature in the country passed laws to recognize electors representing winners of the popular vote. And they are obligated by federal law to observe their laws on their books before the election.
 
#414
#414
hog88 said:
But you're ok with the military having them? They've only lost 6 of them puppies.
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Damn straight I'm more okay with the military having a nuke than I would be my drunk neighbor.
As little as I trust the military and the government, it's still 100 times more than I trust crack head Bubba, crazy Leroy, and psycho Bob.
 
#415
#415
Vol Main said:
But those are your words. Every legislature in the country passed laws to recognize electors representing winners of the popular vote. And they are obligated by federal law to observe the laws on the books before the election.
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If they certify a fraudulent election, are they not liable for election fraud themselves? Are they not bound by duty to ensure that elections are fair? The answer is simple, they are. They are also elected to rule by the will of the people. That's why there will be audits in all the states that are in question from the 2020 election.
 
#419
#419
luthervol said:
Damn straight I'm more okay with the military having a nuke than I would be my drunk neighbor.
As little as I trust the military and the government, it's still 100 times more than I trust crack head Bubba, crazy Leroy, and psycho Bob.
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Can your drunk neighbor enrich uranium?
 
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#420
#420
RockyTop85 said:
Once they’ve passed a law or state constitutional provision that says they have to exercise it a certain way, they are bound by that, until it is repealed or amended. This is just fundamental civics you’re failing at.
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Your assumption relies on the fact that election laws were followed. Audits will prove or disprove this.
 
#421
#421
luthervol said:
Damn straight I'm more okay with the military having a nuke than I would be my drunk neighbor.
As little as I trust the military and the government, it's still 100 times more than I trust crack head Bubba, crazy Leroy, and psycho Bob.
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If crack head Bubba, crazy Leroy or psycho Bob can afford a nuclear weapon then plenty of other people and groups much more dangerous than them have nukes too.
 
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#422
#422
tnmarktx said:
If they certify a fraudulent election, are they not liable for election fraud themselves? Are they not bound by duty to ensure that elections are fair? The answer is simple, they are. They are also elected to rule by the will of the people. That's why there will be audits in all the states that are in question from the 2020 election.
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If, if, if... The job of the legislatures and the Congress is to count the electoral votes after the elections. The electors represent the candidates who appoint them. You are trying to pervert the democratic due process of law by annointing legislatures with the power to elect the President. Those days are gone. You are telling us that if your party loses a Presidential Election but wins a majority in the legislature, then your party can nullify the popular vote and dictate the winner. That is not how the laws read.
 
#425
#425
Vol Main said:
If, if, if... The job of the legislatures and the Congress is to count the electoral votes after the elections. The electors represent the candidates who appoint them. You are trying to pervert the democratic due process of law by annointing legislatures with the power to elect the President. Those days are gone.
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If you think their job is to allow the wild west when it comes to elections where anything goes you're insane. That's what is perverting the democratic process.
 
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