You people crack me up...

[surrealvol]

Is that the way that totally blows you away as being non- viable given the true context of things?

 

[MemphisVol]

No sadly it's more the way spilling a chocolate shake in your lap has a greater immediate physiological than long term ideological presence in ones development as a social human being....

 

[orangetd88]

We've had more than one bad season under Fulmer.

Kills me how people have just completely forgotten about other years besides the mid '90's.

 

[secfanclub]

Originally posted by orangetd88@Nov 22, 2005 2:58 AM
We've had more than one bad season under Fulmer.

Kills me how people have just completely forgotten about other years besides the mid '90's.

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The downfall has been slow but steady for the past several years. The close wins of the past have clouded some fans memories with the degradation of the program. The incoming talent has been steadily high while the performance level has dropped.

 

[mattvols]

Originally posted by oklavol@Nov 22, 2005 1:16 AM
Our OC who you want to blame everything on is making $186,000.  Our head coach who you dont want to blame anything on is making 2.2 million.

Maybe my math's bad here, but looks like we are paying our heach coach a lot of money for nothing if everything is the OC's fault.

[snapback]199427[/snapback]​

Show me one cordinator in the league that is making even 1/4 of what the head coach is making? Its how the salary is for the job everywhere, what'd you expect Fulmer to do when hes getting offered more money say no

 

[bigdaddy]

I would agree that this has been the worse season since I can remember, but I only go back to 1975. 1988 was bad but we won 5 in a row to kick start us to the next season and bang-SEC champs. Fulmer has a huge task ahead and he deserves a chance to put it back together. He has lost control of the team and needs to get tough and be a coach, not a buddy. As for the 7 year decline, it happens in all sports. With the scholarship restictions and better players playing everywhere, it becomes harder to win consistently. USC has done it with a strong core of players in a weak conference. Put them in the SEC and they lose at least 1 game a season over the past three seasons. God Speed Mr. Fulmer and good luck.

 

[CSpindizzy]

It amazes me how people are stuck on the record of the team with defending that it's just one bad year. If that is the only thing you have to say this is a one year slump you've missed the entire season. There's a list of things besides record that many have already posted that show this is more than records and more than just this year. Instead of re-arguing this I'll say just randomly pick any topic and you will find a list of these points.

 

[almostavol]

A poster above put a lot of blame on the OC for UT's lousy season this year, while saying that the previous seasons were OK. Well, who was the OC in the previous seasons to which he referred?

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by brg72@Nov 22, 2005 12:15 AM
2000 sucked 2002 sucked too. 2005 even worst.

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We followed those up with years when we were in the running for an SEC championship too...

Up and down isn't great, but it's not like the down was that down besides this year.

Just lower your expectations a bit. We ARE competing against 117 teams. We can't always be in the top 15 every year. We can have high expectations, but let's not act suprised when those expectations aren't met.

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by oklavol@Nov 22, 2005 1:16 AM
Our OC who you want to blame everything on is making $186,000.  Our head coach who you dont want to blame anything on is making 2.2 million.

Maybe my math's bad here, but looks like we are paying our heach coach a lot of money for nothing if everything is the OC's fault.

[snapback]199427[/snapback]​

Dont use money as an excuse for your anger. Most head coaches damn near make $1 million or more. Most OC's make around $100-200 thousand.

Money has nothing to do with this. We can criticize their performance as coaches, but money should have nothing to do with your argument. All coaches in the NCAA make alot of money. Even Vanderbilt and Kentucky's coach.

 

[gonygonygo]

And the only people who are blaming things on the OC aren't people that you should take seriously. They dont know what they are talking about.

 

[bigdaddy]

If that is the only thing you have to say this is a one year slump you've missed the entire season. There's a list of things besides record that many have already posted that show this is more than records and more than just this year.

If you are referring to the off the field problems, I stated that he has lost control of this team and needs to be tough. We did not have the number of problems last year or the years previous. We have had issue in the past but they have been handeled by the coaching staff. He gave too much away to this years players and now he needs to put a stop to it. My point is he has the right to redirect the program.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Originally posted by vol stuck in irishcountry@Nov 22, 2005 12:11 AM
We have one horrid year with a horrid offense with a horrid OC and you think Fulmer can't coach anymore?  If you think Fulmer can not flat out coach any longer than it just shows how little you have about the game of football.

One lousy season..one, not 2 not 3...just one!

Did it suck..heck yah it did.  Why did it suck, because our OC is just not cut out for UT, never has been.

We win 10 games a year most of the time, play in great bowl games for the past 16 years and even win a national title 7 years ago and we do this with one head coach and we have a fluke of a year and some people think he needs to be fired??

I am baffled by this.  Just think one day you might get your wish if the bad seasons total 2.  Just think you may end up with a coach who could be horrid.  What makes you think that a great coach would take over this program?

There is a better chance that we get a coach who has not business coaching UT.

Think about it....what honestly makes you think that UT can find a better coach?

You dont win 10 games a year, goto great bowls and win a ring and all of a sudden wake up one August and not have a clue how to coach.

The problem was with the offense.  It has sucked since Cutcliffe left.  We had the best recruiting class in the country last year...they are rock solid! 

If you think Fulmer needs to be fired, it just shows what a complete fool you really are.

I bleed orange, I hate losing...for pete's sake I coach basketball at a small college in the midwest...losing sucks!  But one horrid season does not decide that a change needs to be made in the head coaching position.

I just sit back and laugh at everyone who says Fulmer must be fired.  It is actual ridiculous.

They hire Cutcliffe, get back to winning next year and then you will look at yourself and your posts and see how stupid you look right now.

Look at Notre Dame a few years ago..they pushed Lou out because of a below average season with their expectations...and look what happened..they hit ROCK BOTTOM for years to come because they..like UT thought they could get any great coach to come in.  Nobody worth a crap wanted the job and they went thru two really bad coaches before finding Weis.

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First, I agree, we have had one horrid season.

NOW. . . a few "disagreements."

1. Our decline since '98 has been well depicted in other threads. We have not beaten the "upper eschelon" teams in the SEC with any regularity, and our record vs. ranked, and especially top-10 teams, is terrible.

2. Our season did not "suck" because of our OC. Come on.

3. I would not call our bowl appearances or performances great.

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by vol stuck in irishcountry@Nov 22, 2005 12:11 AM
We have one horrid year with a horrid offense with a horrid OC and you think Fulmer can't coach anymore?  If you think Fulmer can not flat out coach any longer than it just shows how little you have about the game of football.

One lousy season..one, not 2 not 3...just one!

Did it suck..heck yah it did.  Why did it suck, because our OC is just not cut out for UT, never has been.

We win 10 games a year most of the time, play in great bowl games for the past 16 years and even win a national title 7 years ago and we do this with one head coach and we have a fluke of a year and some people think he needs to be fired??

I am baffled by this.  Just think one day you might get your wish if the bad seasons total 2.  Just think you may end up with a coach who could be horrid.  What makes you think that a great coach would take over this program?

There is a better chance that we get a coach who has not business coaching UT.

Think about it....what honestly makes you think that UT can find a better coach?

You dont win 10 games a year, goto great bowls and win a ring and all of a sudden wake up one August and not have a clue how to coach.

The problem was with the offense.  It has sucked since Cutcliffe left.  We had the best recruiting class in the country last year...they are rock solid! 

If you think Fulmer needs to be fired, it just shows what a complete fool you really are.

I bleed orange, I hate losing...for pete's sake I coach basketball at a small college in the midwest...losing sucks!  But one horrid season does not decide that a change needs to be made in the head coaching position.

I just sit back and laugh at everyone who says Fulmer must be fired.  It is actual ridiculous.

They hire Cutcliffe, get back to winning next year and then you will look at yourself and your posts and see how stupid you look right now.

Look at Notre Dame a few years ago..they pushed Lou out because of a below average season with their expectations...and look what happened..they hit ROCK BOTTOM for years to come because they..like UT thought they could get any great coach to come in.  Nobody worth a crap wanted the job and they went thru two really bad coaches before finding Weis.

GO VOLS
GO LADY VOLS

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Alot of these same negative folks wanted Fulmer gone after going 10-3 last season too. They actually love the fact that the Vols are having a losing season this year.... and that is really sad. They point to the mid-90&#39;s as what should be the norm. They expect SEC Championships and National Championships EVERY season. Not to mention that no other school wins championships every season. They don&#39;t care... they don&#39;t use reason but emotion in their posts. And if you mention that the Vols play for championships most seasons.... they say its not good enough..... you have to win them for the season to be successful. The Vols are not allowed to get upset either. Upset losses happen to other schools but are unacceptable at Tennessee. I don&#39;t know where these fans were before Fulmer, but they obviously don&#39;t remember what Tennessee football and the SEC was like before 1993. In the past 5 seasons, Tennessee has won or tied the SEC East Division 3 times. But of course they did not win the SEC Championship so the Vols must have sucked. [<- sarcasm] I pull for the Vols when they win AND when they lose. They will rebound. And I will be here to post about next year when they do.

Throughout modern history, Tennessee has really only had 6 head coaches with at least 5 years at the helm.

Phil Fulmer is credited with 1 national title (1998) and undefeated season... 2 SEC titles (1997,1998)... 4 outright SEC East Division championships (1997, 1998, 2001, 2004)... and 2 "ties" for the East Division (1993 and 2003).

Johnny Majors won 3 SEC titles. However, Florida was 5-1 in 1985 and 6-1 in 1990. Tennessee was 5-1 in 1985 AND lost to Florida but the Gators were on probation. The Gators were again on probation in 1990 when the Vols finished 5-1-1. In 1989, the Vols tied with Alabama and Auburn. He was NOT fired for his record. His racial comments and attitude towards authority figures within the university did him in.

Bill Battle never won the SEC title. His inability to beat Alabama and Auburn plus 3 straight mediocre (less than 7 wins) cost him his job.

Doug Dickey won 2 SEC titles (1967,1969) and no national championships. Both seasons the Vols finished 9-2. In what is still controversial, Dickey announced he was going to coach at the University of Florida.... while the Vols lost to Florida in the bowl game that same season.

Bowden Wyatt won one SEC Championship (1956) and no national championships. The Vols did finish 2nd in 1956 with a 10-0 regular season.

General Neyland had 3 different coaching stints at Tennessee. He won 2 Southern Conference titles (1927 and 1932) during his first go around. His second stint yielded 3 SEC titles (1938, 1939, 1940). And his 3rd time at UT yielded 2 SEC Championships (1946 and 1951) and 1 national title (1951). That is the only other consensus national championship that the Vols have won besides in 1998.

 

[bigdaddy]

So seeing our lackluster performance in bowls (excluding last year) and not beating the likes of Ga., Fl., Aub., consistenly, how long do you give this a chance to turn around. Realistically with the contact that is left (6 years) and the financial restriants that it places on the program. That is the question I ask myself quite a bit here daily. I still give him two years, but in reality it is more like three. In any case, CPF is at a crossroad in his coaching career.

 

[GAVol]

I agree Bigdaddy. The economics dictate that he&#39;ll get at least 2 more years. CPF&#39;s contract is kind of like a car lease. It doesn&#39;t matter whether you like it or not, you really don&#39;t have many options until you start approaching the back end of the contract.

 

[Liper]

Wow, what a list to respond to...

From AllVol:

They actually love the fact that the Vols are having a losing season this year.... and that is really sad. They point to the mid-90&#39;s as what should be the norm. They expect SEC Championships and National Championships EVERY season. Not to mention that no other school wins championships every season.

1. I for one am extremely happy that the year has degenerated, once we saw that is was going there. Why? Not because I am into S&M, but because I know how CPF makes excuse after excuse -- like he is right now, btw -- and will look for any reason to NOT make changes.

2. The mid 90s were great from an aggregate record standpoint. But at the end of the day, CPF has only won 2 SECC in 13 seasons. Not terrible, but not great either.

3. THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS SEC EAST CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Just lower your expectations a bit. We ARE competing against 117 teams. We can&#39;t always be in the top 15 every year. We can have high expectations, but let&#39;s not act suprised when those expectations aren&#39;t met.

1. We&#39;re actually competing against about 30, maybe 40 teams. Our budget, facilities, fan base, tradition, etc, put us in the elite programs. Remember, since 1926 we&#39;re the winningest program in the country. I know that&#39;s hard to swallow because we just lost to a team without an athletic department...

2. Why can&#39;t we expect to be in the top 15 every year? We might not end up there EVERY year, but that expectation is not flawed.

3. TN has only finished in the top 15 once or twice since &#39;98...I think.

The lunatic fringe, if we all remember, has been clamoring for staff changes for about 5 years or so on offense, e.g. Pat Washington. This is not new stuff -- just more evidence.

 

[gonygonygo]

I just think that a man with the track record and success that CPF has had, he deserves more respect.

I&#39;m sorry, you don&#39;t fire one of the most successful coaches in the league after one horrid season. You just dont do it. Maybe if this was his 3rd or 4th year and he hasn&#39;t done squat. But CPF has earned the right to be given the chance to turnaround a no-bowl season.

You can say what you want about the decline, but about a year or two ago, CPF was the winningest (%) active NCAA Div 1 coach.

Also, when you win a national championship you have no where else to go but down. You people forget how HARD it is to do that in the first place. Just because you can do it once doesn&#39;t mean it will be easy to happen again.

We are the University of Tennessee. We still have the reputation as the most prestigious program in the SEC, no matter how we&#39;ve done the last few years. We get everyone&#39;s best shot. Everyone gets up to play us.
Let&#39;s just give CPF a chance to turn this around. I give him two more years. One out of common sense, Two out of respect for his contributions to UT.

 

[wilburnVol]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 22, 2005 3:42 PM
I just think that a man with the track record and success that CPF has had, he deserves more respect.

I&#39;m sorry, you don&#39;t fire one of the most successful coaches in the league after one horrid season.  You just dont do it. 

[snapback]199720[/snapback]​

I respect Pjil and I would respect him more if he would take the Randy Sanders gut check......and fall on his own sword.

Man would I ever respect him then. :dance2:

 

[wilburnVol]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 22, 2005 2:40 PM
Wow, what a list to respond to...
1. I for one am extremely happy that the year has degenerated, once we saw that is was going there.  Why?  Not because I am into S&M, but because I know how CPF makes excuse after excuse -- like he is right now, btw -- and will look for any reason to NOT make changes.

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I agree, once we started sliding down the Hill, it was time to hit the muddy bottom. It was a win-win situation going up against Vandy in victory or defeat. Hell, I&#39;ll take a loss to KY if that speeds along the process and turns up th high presure.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 22, 2005 1:12 PM
I just think that a man with the track record and success that CPF has had, he deserves more respect.

I&#39;m sorry, you don&#39;t fire one of the most successful coaches in the league after one horrid season.  You just dont do it.

Also, when you win a national championship you have no where else to go but down.

We still have the reputation as the most prestigious program in the SEC, no matter how we&#39;ve done the last few years.

Let&#39;s just give CPF a chance to turn this around.  I give him two more years.  One out of common sense, Two out of respect for his contributions to UT.

[snapback]199720[/snapback]​

1. I respect the man, in general, so it has nothing to do with that. However, I will say that his excuse-making after a losing season is grating on me.

2. I have never ever advocated the firing of CPF, but have been screaming for changes since forever, seemingly. This is NOT one bad season. Unranked three of the last 6 years, no SECC, losing back to back Peach Bowls, et cetera.

3. There haven&#39;t been many people I have ever heard from that demand national championships.

4. BAMA is the most prestigious program, just ask them. They will now have 13 NC after they win the Alabama Football QB Club 2005 national championship.

5. Agreed. CPF should get two more years, assuming they are not good. If he gets this thing turned, which I think he will, then he can ride off into the sunset. But he needs to win an SECC within the next 3 years, IMHO. That will make an entire decade since the last SECC.

 

[volbreaker]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 22, 2005 12:10 PM
Wow, what a list to respond to...
1. I for one am extremely happy that the year has degenerated, once we saw that is was going there.  Why?  Not because I am into S&M, but because I know how CPF makes excuse after excuse -- like he is right now, btw -- and will look for any reason to NOT make changes.

2. The mid 90s were great from an aggregate record standpoint.  But at the end of the day, CPF has only won 2 SECC in 13 seasons.  Not terrible, but not great either.

3. THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS SEC EAST CHAMPIONSHIPS.
1. We&#39;re actually competing against about 30, maybe 40 teams.  Our budget, facilities, fan base, tradition, etc, put us in the elite programs.  Remember, since 1926 we&#39;re the winningest program in the country.  I know that&#39;s hard to swallow because we just lost to a team without an athletic department...

2. Why can&#39;t we expect to be in the top 15 every year?  We might not end up there EVERY year, but that expectation is not flawed.

3. TN has only finished in the top 15 once or twice since &#39;98...I think.

The lunatic fringe, if we all remember, has been clamoring for staff changes for about 5 years or so on offense, e.g. Pat Washington.  This is not new stuff -- just more evidence.

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Thank you Liper&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I&#39;m surprised there are no posts that agree with the Gonygon&#39;s et al from Bammers&#39; and Gators&#39;

 

[SickofNotreDame]

Foolmer&#39;s graduation rate, high criminal rate, investigations, the staff he has surrounded himself with, and his do less with more is enough to keep him around for awhile, Right? :banghead

Since 2001 UT has been on a downward spiral. We will see how good of a coach Foolmer is next year when Chavis is replacing his front seven.

 

[Liper]

Hmmm...I think our defense will be pretty good.

Our offense and special teams need reconstructive surgery.

 

[Lexvol]

I take heart in watching what has happened to other offenses this season. Take ND, Penn State, and Auburn and what do you see? One team that upgraded its QB situation immediately with coaching, one team who brought in a new offensive coordinator that lit a fire under the team (and a proven head coach, Paterno) who had been left for dead, and one team that broke in a green QB, but with the right OC put 28 points on the board against a tough Bama D.

All three examples played tough schedules, but experienced a new birth of offense under the right management. It CAN happen with coaching and culture change.