Please tell me Jones didn't say this...

[orangefreak21]

Dooley is NOT the measuring stick for success. Butch was fortunate in many ways to take over for such ineptitude. Even doing basic things like having players lift weights makes him appear to be accomplishing something. And yet most fans, like you, keep refering back to Dooley, as if every criticism of Butch is a desire to go back to Dools. It isn't. There are other options.

Dooley was last head coach, no? Maybe that's why the reference is relevant. Go ahead and count the last 7+ years and span 3 other coaches if you want.


Jones still has program in better spot than in those last 7+ years.

Changing coaches like you change underwear is not the road to success. It's his 3rd yr in a process, its our 8th. We our impatient and frustrated, but imo we are headed for success

 

[peytonmanningwoo]

The program is not better off. We are likely to lose our next two games. Jones will have a worse record than Dooley after 32 games. The numbers don't lie.

Dooley was last head coach, no? Maybe that's why the reference is relevant. Go ahead and count the last 7+ years and span 3 other coaches if you want.


Jones still has program in better spot than in those last 7+ years.

Changing coaches like you change underwear is not the road to success. It's his 3rd yr in a process, its our 8th. We our impatient and frustrated, but imo we are headed for success

 

[volballs1]

Get me Fuente on line 1

 

[vol66]

Get me Fuente on line 1

yeah, do that. hang up and listen.

 

[Tennman]

ok here you go. Jones didnt say this.

 

[volinbama256]

I agree. I got really aggravated in the Florida game, when Sutton went for a tackle on the sideline in the 3rd qtr, instead of wrapping him up and driving through the tackle, he gave a little shoulder bump that turned into 4 more yards on the sideline. If I was Butch, his ass would have been sitting on the bench for awhile! For such a big game, you would think that some of the players would have given 110%.

I've brought this play up several times--- very disappointing and very telling at the same time... Some of the poor angles and tackling from that game and the Ark game reminded me of the Dooley team that missed 11 tackles on one play that everyone makes fun of now. Our D has talent, it's just not being utilized and developed. News now of Jumper's dad's company being a huge donor now the same time he all of a sudden is on the field is telling as well...

 

[Volsick]

Butch gets a little more time only because of the dumpster fire that he inherited. We lose from coaching issues next year. He will be packing his bags.

 

[NashVol11]

Butch gets a little more time only because of the dumpster fire that he inherited. We lose from coaching issues next year. He will be packing his bags.

Dooley inherited a dumpster fire. Did he deserve a fourth year? Because personally, I would have fired him after two.

Some don't understand that it's not just about record, it's about seeing bad coaching decisions game after game after game. Those don't magically get fixed over time.

 

[JC61]

Dooley inherited a dumpster fire. Did he deserve a fourth year? Because personally, I would have fired him after two.

Some don't understand that it's not just about record, it's about seeing bad coaching decisions game after game after game. Those don't magically get fixed over time.

not so sure...Dooley inherited a mess...but he made it much worse. I would have fired him earlier as well.

It is about the record with many...he could make those "bad" calls and if UT won those games folks wouldn't be as nearly fired up. Plus, for every bad call...there were multiple execution errors on the field during the games.

 

[sjt18]

Jones has "purged" the Dooley out of the program. He chose that course. He chose youth over some potential contributors who weren't his guys.

As VKA said, Dooley inherited a dumpster fire. Probably worse but certainly no better than what he left Jones.

For instance, from 2007-2009 here are UT's OL signees: Cody Pope, Sawtelle, Carson Anderson, Preston Bailey, Dallas Thomas, Kevin Revis, and J Schofield. Only 7 signees in 3 years and only one worth a dime.

One of the reasons it was time for Fulmer to go is that he flat couldn't recruit the OL or DL at the end.


Dooley wasn't fired for what he inherited. He was fired because he failed to fix it. Jones should be judged by the exact same standard... as measured in WINS.

 

[JC61]

Jones has "purged" the Dooley out of the program. He chose that course. He chose youth over some potential contributors who weren't his guys.

As VKA said, Dooley inherited a dumpster fire. Probably worse but certainly no better than what he left Jones.

For instance, from 2007-2009 here are UT's OL signees: Cody Pope, Sawtelle, Carson Anderson, Preston Bailey, Dallas Thomas, Kevin Revis, and J Schofield. Only 7 signees in 3 years and only one worth a dime.

One of the reasons it was time for Fulmer to go is that he flat couldn't recruit the OL or DL at the end.


Dooley wasn't fired for what he inherited. He was fired because he failed to fix it. Jones should be judged by the exact same standard... as measured in WINS.

we're just going to have to disagree on part of this.

Dooley wasn't put in an optimal position, for sure, but the guy wasn't / isn't HC material before, then or now...he left it worse than he found it.

Jones at least has had success in previous jobs. I think he could use some mentoring and learn to coach a little looser...but, you have stated he is good at recognizing and developing talent.

He should be measured by the success on the field...agree; however, the team is getting better...as incrementally as it may be. I also think Jones and this team want to win so bad they can't get out of their own way sometimes....specifically late in the 4th Qtr....but a gnats @ss from getting there. I could be wrong...but still think the team can turn this around.

 

[tm3]

Dooley inherited a dumpster fire. Did he deserve a fourth year? Because personally, I would have fired him after two.

Some don't understand that it's not just about record, it's about seeing bad coaching decisions game after game after game. Those don't magically get fixed over time.

Plus, nonsensical coaching decisions cannot be explained away by "youth" or "Dooley."

 

[butchna]

Jones has "purged" the Dooley out of the program. He chose that course. He chose youth over some potential contributors who weren't his guys.

As VKA said, Dooley inherited a dumpster fire. Probably worse but certainly no better than what he left Jones.

For instance, from 2007-2009 here are UT's OL signees: Cody Pope, Sawtelle, Carson Anderson, Preston Bailey, Dallas Thomas, Kevin Revis, and J Schofield. Only 7 signees in 3 years and only one worth a dime.

One of the reasons it was time for Fulmer to go is that he flat couldn't recruit the OL or DL at the end.


Dooley wasn't fired for what he inherited. He was fired because he failed to fix it. Jones should be judged by the exact same standard... as measured in WINS.

Which productive "Dooley guys" have been jettisoned to our detriment? Drae Bowles? Justin King? Tom Smith? Nate Peterman?

 

[beachbums624]

Would some of you feel better if he came out with . We sux we are going 2 - 10 .we will never EVER be any better .

It certainly feels like some would enjoy it more .

 

[DjVFL0773]

:snoring:

 

[Bluetic]

If you don't realize this program is light years ahead of when Dooley was in control, you are just being irrational.

Dooley is not the measuring stick...I hope...:whistling:

 

[sjt18]

we're just going to have to disagree on part of this.

Dooley wasn't put in an optimal position, for sure, but the guy wasn't / isn't HC material before, then or now...

I'm not saying he was.

he left it worse than he found it.

You can prove that... go unit by unit and name by name in the respective two deeps. I am by no means saying that Dooley left a good situation... and he really screwed Jones on that recruiting class. But just comparing those respective two deeps... Dooley inherited worse. He didn't improve the mess much if at all... but it was bad.

Jones at least has had success in previous jobs. I think he could use some mentoring and learn to coach a little looser...but, you have stated he is good at recognizing and developing talent.

I am honestly beginning to question that. People here are claiming that both UF and Arkansas had better players. Jones is refusing to say coaching decisions have been an issue and lay everything at the feet of the players' execution.

The OL in the 3rd year seems just as clueless as ever. The WR's cannot get open and do not block particularly well. Dobbs is erratic... to be kind. The DL has been a disappointment after big expectations. The LB's aren't playing well. The secondary has been spotty. The problems simply shouldn't be this pervasive in year 3.

He should be measured by the success on the field...agree; however, the team is getting better...as incrementally as it may be. I also think Jones and this team want to win so bad they can't get out of their own way sometimes....specifically late in the 4th Qtr....but a gnats @ss from getting there. I could be wrong...but still think the team can turn this around.

I'm not sure there is incremental improvement.

Even if there is... that won't resolve what has caused the losses. They're not losing because they aren't good enough to win. They're losing because they're choking under pressure from the HC down.

 

[sjt18]

Jones actually coaches his best when he coaches like he has nothing to lose.

We saw that vs USCe last year. He wasn't absorbed in fears of losing... just doing all he could to win. No pressure not to choke since the game was lost unless he could steal it back.

 

[sjt18]

Which productive "Dooley guys" have been jettisoned to our detriment? Drae Bowles? Justin King? Tom Smith? Nate Peterman?

We'll never know will we? That's the one certain thing about them being gone.

Out of that list maybe Bowles... I mean UT hasn't exactly had a WR emerge who can get open and catch the ball, have they?

At this point if they could have played a significant ST's role it would help.

 

[Volmorning]

We'll never know will we? That's the one certain thing about them being gone.

Out of that list maybe Bowles... I mean UT hasn't exactly had a WR emerge who can get open and catch the ball, have they?

At this point if they could have played a significant ST's role it would help.

I think it is kind of messed up that there is all this talk about lack of depth and yet the attrition rate, no matter how you try to spin it, has been very high for Butch's first two classes.

 

[MaTaLa]

Negavol hate thread

 

[JC61]

I'm not saying he was.

You can prove that... go unit by unit and name by name in the respective two deeps. I am by no means saying that Dooley left a good situation... and he really screwed Jones on that recruiting class. But just comparing those respective two deeps... Dooley inherited worse. He didn't improve the mess much if at all... but it was bad.

The OL was a good one...but I think either they didn't buy in w/ CBJ the first year or the skill positions didn't produce. The D, minus AJ wasn't really good...you know this, man.

I am honestly beginning to question that. People here are claiming that both UF and Arkansas had better players. Jones is refusing to say coaching decisions have been an issue and lay everything at the feet of the players' execution.

His record in the MAC and Big East are evidence enough...maybe it was a stretch for him to move into the SEC so soon...there is still time to rectify that.

The OL in the 3rd year seems just as clueless as ever. The WR's cannot get open and do not block particularly well. Dobbs is erratic... to be kind. The DL has been a disappointment after big expectations. The LB's aren't playing well. The secondary has been spotty. The problems simply shouldn't be this pervasive in year 3.

The OL is quite disappointing...they do have flashes but fact of the matter is we don't have a decent tackle out there yet. The young guys may not be quite ready...they are freshmen after all and while there are a few who can handle they are generally not thrown in with other underclassmen to fill out an OL....still, since nothing else has worked it may be worth a try...but ol' boy would get flambeed for that as well. Dobbs is not a good throwing QB....maybe he could be more successful behind a decent OL but we don't have one yet.

I'm not sure there is incremental improvement.

Well...I and some others can see it....there is one ingredient missing to turn the corner. Everyone has injuries, but it may have been a bit too much for this team to overcome...yes, I do understand that is where leadership comes into play and we need some from the top down right about now...as well as some positive energy from the fanbase.

Even if there is... that won't resolve what has caused the losses. They're not losing because they aren't good enough to win. They're losing because they're choking under pressure from the HC down.

Can't totally argue here....this is got me really thinking deeper about some of the issues; however, while I am not a polyanna....I do see enough of a spark to think they can turn the corner. Most of the key contributors are 1 or 2 years in college....these young men need a boost and I'll just continue to believe it will come sooner than later.

edit: haven't learned to insert like you do...but my responses are embedded above.

 

[Bukstar]

Jones actually coaches his best when he coaches like he has nothing to lose.

We saw that vs USCe last year. He wasn't absorbed in fears of losing... just doing all he could to win. No pressure not to choke since the game was lost unless he could steal it back.

Exactly, it's like is a better coach when he is behind by 14

 

[butchna]

We'll never know will we? That's the one certain thing about them being gone.

Out of that list maybe Bowles... I mean UT hasn't exactly had a WR emerge who can get open and catch the ball, have they?

At this point if they could have played a significant ST's role it would help.

ST's with the exception of FG kicking have been exemplary. Bowles over Jennings? Williams? I haven't checked his stats at UTC...maybe he's a big reason for their #6 ranking...wasn't a factor here. Of all your attrition arguments, this is the definite baseless one.

 

[JACK8254]

"Sometimes you see results that maybe outside people don't see because you're gauged on wins"

If so, I'm about ready to lose my mind. Why win when you can just prattle on about some nonsense regarding "progress",then tell everyone they can't see it, but I can?

We still lose- but the games are at least close now. At least we don't get beat 42-10 and such. So there is hope.