D'Andre Payne

[Orange_Crush]

Go look at our SEC mates and tell me how many FR they lost/are losing to attrition. Not JR/SR who have had an opportunity to contribute but never have. Since its so commmon you shouldn't have a problem showing that everyone has lost this many young players and not due to disciplinarian reasons.

So, it's OK to lose upper-classmen, but an indictment to lose freshmen that are adjusting to college life, homesickness, college competition, and who are getting out with almost their entire college career ahead of them?

Please explain your rationale.

 

[DaddyChad]

Go look at our SEC mates and tell me how many FR they lost/are losing to attrition. Not JR/SR who have had an opportunity to contribute but never have. Since its so commmon you shouldn't have a problem showing that everyone has lost this many young players and not due to disciplinarian reasons.

Why not include those? Are we going to not count Henderson because that was entirely out of the staff's control?

 

[vol-un-tear]

Go look at our SEC mates and tell me how many FR they lost/are losing to attrition. Not JR/SR who have had an opportunity to contribute but never have. Since its so commmon you shouldn't have a problem showing that everyone has lost this many young players and not due to disciplinarian reasons.

Glad Kumara left Bama!

This is from Florida last year:
Multiple players also announced they would leave the program to join others.

On Dec. 12, the school announced that six players were transferring: redshirt junior offensive lineman Ian Silberman; sophomore tight end Kent Taylor, redshirt freshmen defensive back/fullback Rhaheim Ledbetter and offensive lineman Quinteze Williams; and freshmen quarterback Max Staver and offensive lineman Trevon Young.

Three days after those players’ decisions were announced, quarterback Tyler Murphy announced he would transfer as well.

 

[GLDunlap]

Glad Kumara left Bama!

This is from Florida last year:
Multiple players also announced they would leave the program to join others.

On Dec. 12, the school announced that six players were transferring: redshirt junior offensive lineman Ian Silberman; sophomore tight end Kent Taylor, redshirt freshmen defensive back/fullback Rhaheim Ledbetter and offensive lineman Quinteze Williams; and freshmen quarterback Max Staver and offensive lineman Trevon Young.

Three days after those players’ decisions were announced, quarterback Tyler Murphy announced he would transfer as well.

and one year later Muschamp was fired.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Don't interrupt your razor sharpening to try to educate/depress me...these players could have developed into contributors...but they weren't...how many valuable snaps were lost? It's not good...nor is it bad. It's big time football.

Just because you believe all true FR should contribute meaningful snaps doesn't make it true. Your way of spinning this, is by saying "how much did they play? exactly!" Losing guys who haven't been needed yet doesn't make them dispensable.

And replacing a rising SO, who has a year in the scheme and S&C program, with a true FR with neither is not a win-win for 2015 no matter how many times you tell yourself, Butch. Look in the mirror and see what's going on in your program.

 

[vol-un-tear]

[/B]

and one year later Muschamp was fired.

Smart answer:
Notre Dame has seen a rash of transfers out of its football program in the last few weeks. Davonte Neal, Justin Ferguson, Tee Shepard and quarterback Gunner Kiel have all either transferred or notified the school of their intent to do so. These men composed the top four signees from the 2012 recruiting class—a class that was ranked No. 9 nationally.

Notre Dame

Eight players have left the program since March, with quarterbacks Jake Rodrigues and Damion Hobbs, defensive back Eric Amoako, punter Dylan Ausherman, linebacker Brett Bafaro, receiver Eric Dungy joining Robinson and Dunmore.

Oregon

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Why not include those? Are we going to not count Henderson because that was entirely out of the staff's control?

Discipline is not beyond the staff's control, Henderson's situation is. We've also lost 4 others excluding Henderson, plus Miller and Malik Brown from the '13 class.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

So, it's OK to lose upper-classmen, but an indictment to lose freshmen that are adjusting to college life, homesickness, college competition, and who are getting out with almost their entire college career ahead of them?

Please explain your rationale.

The upperclassmen that are lost are ones like Bowles. He's been here for 3 yrs, has yet to see the field and likely never will other than on ST. He's obviously been outplayed by underclassmen. A true FR has had minimal chances to contribute and shouldn't even be expected to contribute. Hendrix was "beat out" by upperclassmen and one fellow FR. If he's here in 2016 and losing a spot to an incoming FR then it would be obvious he's not going to contribute.

Pretty simple rationale.

 

[butchna]

Just because you believe all true FR should contribute meaningful snaps doesn't make it true. Your way of spinning this, is by saying "how much did they play? exactly!" Losing guys who haven't been needed yet doesn't make them dispensable.

And replacing a rising SO, who has a year in the scheme and S&C program, with a true FR with neither is not a win-win for 2015 no matter how many times you tell yourself, Butch. Look in the mirror and see what's going on in your program.

Miller didn't contribute for a reason...true freshmen were better...pure and simple...we needed his spot to get better players...same with Payne...Helm played so well that Ellis earned a scholarship and Hendrix would have ended up good for us...when Barnett's winning Rookie of the Year in the NFL. We're going to get better/hungrier players into those spots to make us a better team.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Glad Kumara left Bama!

This is from Florida last year:
Multiple players also announced they would leave the program to join others.

On Dec. 12, the school announced that six players were transferring: redshirt junior offensive lineman Ian Silberman; sophomore tight end Kent Taylor, redshirt freshmen defensive back/fullback Rhaheim Ledbetter and offensive lineman Quinteze Williams; and freshmen quarterback Max Staver and offensive lineman Trevon Young.

Three days after those players’ decisions were announced, quarterback Tyler Murphy announced he would transfer as well.

So you named two true FR. The others had at least two years in the program.

 

[DaddyChad]

Discipline is not beyond the staff's control, Henderson's situation is. We've also lost 4 others excluding Henderson, plus Miller and Malik Brown from the '13 class.

To a degree it is. If a kid wants to do something stupid he will do something stupid. A lot of that you never see coming either. You can't run the football program like a concentration camp because one or two kids may do something idiotic if they are given any measure of independence.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Miller didn't contribute for a reason...true freshmen were better...pure and simple...we needed his spot to get better players...same with Payne...Helm played so well that Ellis earned a scholarship and Hendrix would have ended up good for us...when Barnett's winning Rookie of the Year in the NFL. We're going to get better/hungrier players into those spots to make us a better team.

Your head's so buried in Butch's ass you haven't seen daylight in 2 years. You're missing a lot in the world these days.

 

[Orange_Crush]

The upperclassmen that are lost are ones like Bowles. He's been here for 3 yrs, has yet to see the field and likely never will other than on ST. He's obviously been outplayed by underclassmen. A true FR has had minimal chances to contribute and shouldn't even be expected to contribute. Hendrix was "beat out" by upperclassmen and one fellow FR. If he's here in 2016 and losing a spot to an incoming FR then it would be obvious he's not going to contribute.

Pretty simple rationale.

Like I said, I'm sure everyone here wishes he'd stay. I'm sure the staff wishes he would stay. I'm not sure anyone is glad they're leaving.

But you wanted to compare the number of freshman transfers with other schools, as if the staff is failing in some way. And then you didn't answer my question. I asked:

So, it's OK to lose upper-classmen, but an indictment to lose freshmen that are adjusting to college life, homesickness, college competition, and who are getting out with almost their entire college career ahead of them?

I'm trying to get a fix on your rationale. You think that it is more of a failure for the staff that they have several freshmen wanting to transfer? If so, why is it worse coaching to lose freshmen in their first year, when they make less mature decisions, are still getting used to the life change in college, are more susceptible to homesickness, are still trying to recover from "big-pond" syndrome?

Again... I'm sure we'll all agree that we wish they would stay. And again... I'm sure the staff would prefer they stay. But what exactly would you have the staff do? And why is it a bigger failure to lose freshmen than to lose upperclassmen like Saban did on '11?

 

[vol-un-tear]

So you named two true FR. The others had at least two years in the program.

A transfer is a transfer. I also posted more from Notre Dame and Oregon. The point is kids leave because they won't play because of better talent or they give up football. Here is the reason Hendrix is leaving. Enjoy and Go Vols!
Imagine the intrigue heading into next season in Knoxville: Derek Barnett and Kahlil McKenzie matching plays behind the line of scrimmage along the same defensive line.

Barnett, Tennessee’s freshman record holder for sacks in a season (10.0), was one of the SEC’s biggest surprises this fall and McKenzie, an incoming five-star tackle from California, holds the natural ability to provide a similar impact. (Add Tuttle).

 

[butchna]

Your head's so buried in Butch's ass you haven't seen daylight in 2 years. You're missing a lot in the world these days.

You're too busy guzzling Drano for your constipation to realize how full of s*** you really are. :yuck: Butch is bringing in great players left and right...I'm supposed to b**** about some of them leaving because they're not good enough to start yet? We're not going to agree on this. If something doesn't work, I along with the vast majority of Vol fans figure it out. You gloomy failure junkies need a fix and want us to hook you up...ain't happening. :yu:

 

[kevino]

so we gonna sign 30 again ?

 

[scvolfan7]

Just hang on to the 4 star recruits and give them time to develop. Imagine how good Helm and Hendrix would be down the road if they had stayed. Just because a guy does not play as a freshman doesn't mean he can't contribute later in his career.

Butch tried but they didn't want to stay. He can't hold them against their will.

 

[Roustabout]

Must do a better job evaluating talent and managing players. What other program in the nation has mass defections from freshmen who do not start ? Helm and Hendrix played quite a bit and still wanted out. Jones needs to be a better manager of his players, that much is obvious.

Some truth in this. Hendrix was rated much higher than Kyle Phillips who Vol fans are wringing their hands over at the moment.
And yet he leaves, disgruntled, and those same fans are just like, 'whatever.'
Regardless of what Butch thinks, he or his system isn't infallible. I was concerned when so early in the hire he started throwing around this term. I've often joked that our coaches should have started out with a black stripe as well. To this point there are several over there that haven't earned their orange stripe. Overall, CBJ has done a great job. He turned around the APR, and many don't realize how dire things were at UT when he took over. He has implemented a lot of controls and protocols that have made off the field incidents rare.

But, he has never dealt with this caliber of athlete and it is different than managing a Cincy roster. People can accept this as fact or they can keep making excuses when 4star athletes leave. Hendrix was the #5 DE coming out of HS. That is a major blow and now UT is scrambling because they have no depth at SDE and none of the current commits fit that mold.

 

[scvolfan7]

none of the current commits fit that mold.[/QUOTE]

Not true. Andrew Butcher fits and Quay Picou could play SDE

 

[vol-un-tear]

Some truth in this. Hendrix was rated much higher than Kyle Phillips who Vol fans are wringing their hands over at the moment.
And yet he leaves, disgruntled, and those same fans are just like, 'whatever.'
Regardless of what Butch thinks, he or his system isn't infallible. I was concerned when so early in the hire he started throwing around this term. I've often joked that our coaches should have started out with a black stripe as well. To this point there are several over there that haven't earned their orange stripe. Overall, CBJ has done a great job. He turned around the APR, and many don't realize how dire things were at UT when he took over. He has implemented a lot of controls and protocols that have made off the field incidents rare.

But, he has never dealt with this caliber of athlete and it is different than managing a Cincy roster. People can accept this as fact or they can keep making excuses when 4star athletes leave. Hendrix was the #5 DE coming out of HS. That is a major blow and now UT is scrambling because they have no depth at SDE and none of the current commits fit that mold.

Barnett was a better 4* who earned the playing time. I wish Hendrix was staying but now there are 5* kids coming. There is nothing we can do but wait and see. With Maggitt coming back it will be hard for Hendrix to get significant PT. He may have been asked to redshirt for all we know. We have to see if what happens pays off in future recruiting.

 

[UTwild82]

When you recruit 32 scholarship athletes and sell them all with the promise of immediate playing time, this is going to happen. Butch gave them all a shot to play immediately, these guys just got beat out and are looking for opportunities elsewhere. The staff isn't bad, the kids aren't bad, it just didn't pan out. This stuff happens.

There was a reason why this staff kept taking commits when it looked like we could only sign 16 kids this year. They knew this would happen and didn't want to be caught off guard. It's almost like they knew what they were doing...

It's going to be OK.

 

[Eastsidevol]

So, it's OK to lose upper-classmen, but an indictment to lose freshmen that are adjusting to college life, homesickness, college competition, and who are getting out with almost their entire college career ahead of them?

Please explain your rationale.

The freshmen need time in the program to develop. Given that time they will contribute meaningful minutes. An upperclassman who has been in the program and still is not playing is a different story. He is probably not going to give you any significant minutes. You can part ways with these players knowing it is not going to hurt you on the field.

 

[scvolfan7]

The freshmen need time in the program to develop. Given that time they will contribute meaningful minutes. An upperclassman who has been in the program and still is not playing is a different story. He is probably not going to give you any significant minutes. You can part ways with these players knowing it is not going to hurt you on the field.

Yeah we all wanted them to stay and I'm sure butch did too but if they wanted to leave what can you do?

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

Yeah we all wanted them to stay and I'm sure butch did too but if they wanted to leave what can you do?

Complain about it on VN?

 

[scvolfan7]

Complain about it on VN?

Haha I suppose so