If Fulmer had fired Clawson mid season, would he have never been let go?

[LexVol71]

Was it done the right way probably not but it was time

It was time? How has that that worked out for you?
Phil was done when Dickey retired in 2003 and Mike Hamilton was named AD. Hamilton had zero experience as a collegiate sports professional. He was nothing more than a suit, an assistant under Dickey, a guy who handled facilities. Then, of course, there was Hamilton's boss, Jimmy Cheek, another suit, an academic filled with an inflated ego who held little or no actual interest in athletics. I don't care who you are or where you work. When your boss is incompetent and he doesn't have your back, you're destined to fail. Due to a lack of knowledgeable administrative support, Phil ultimately did. I suggest pointing your accusing finger at the true, underlying cause.

 

[XknoxvolsX]

Seems alot of fans frustration was that after each blowout loss he seemed to be poo poo'ing people being upset by saying "we've won alot of games around here" and "we havent forgotten how to coach".

That's not what people wanted to hear. Fire Clawson, say changes are coming, good recruiting class coming in etc.

JMO.

Don't forget to add in that he stole Spurrier's saying that "our fans are spoiled" and that "we've got a top five recruiting class coming in"!

 

[XknoxvolsX]

He wasn’t bringing him back...totally neutralized him. Would say jmo...but it isn’t.

Behr is totally right on this one. Don't you guys remember when Fulmer scrapped the spread about halfway through the season and went back to the traditional Pro formation? That was one of the things fans were griping about!

 

[butchna]

Behr is totally right on this one. Don't you guys remember when Fulmer scrapped the spread about halfway through the season and went back to the traditional Pro formation? That was one of the things fans were griping about!

Why are you quoting me?

 

[XknoxvolsX]

Why are you quoting me?

Hard to believe but for one of the few times (ever) I agree with something you said!

 

[onevol74]

Hard to believe but for one of the few times (ever) I agree with something you said!

I feel an astrological aberration happening here.

 

[butchna]

Hard to believe but for one of the few times (ever) I agree with something you said!

Wasn’t a statement. Legitimate question.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

This is what Bama fans must have been like before Saban
It was his time
Was it done the right way probably not but it was time

He’s in a good spot now and hopefully keeps it so the politics stay at a minimum

This. Spot on. It was time. The downward spiral started before Clawson.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Naw, it was obvious after that UCLA loss that Fulmer was done. That UCLA squad was simply atrocious and they came back and humiliated us. Fulmer did have a good recruiting class in the works but remember the year before we finished in the 40s. If you aren't pulling in Top 15 classes every year you have no shot at winning the SEC. It was a steady decline just like Bowden at FSU.

Can anyone honestly say that they expected Fulmer to right the ship and start winning SEC and NCs once again? I love Fulmer but the writing had been on the wall for some time.

I think he had a highly rated class in 2005 and were ranked in the top 5 to start the year so the decline started well before 2008. Losing to weaker ACC teams in bowls after the 2002 and 2003 seasons didn’t help either.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Naw, it was obvious after that UCLA loss that Fulmer was done. That UCLA squad was simply atrocious and they came back and humiliated us. Fulmer did have a good recruiting class in the works but remember the year before we finished in the 40s. If you aren't pulling in Top 15 classes every year you have no shot at winning the SEC. It was a steady decline just like Bowden at FSU.

Can anyone honestly say that they expected Fulmer to right the ship and start winning SEC and NCs once again? I love Fulmer but the writing had been on the wall for some time.

I can and I believe had Fulmer stayed we would have won the East 2 to 4 times. I don’t know about SEC Championship or National Champs but Tennessee would have been much better off and when he did decide to leave the program would have way ahead of where it is today. Firing Fulmer put this program to the bottom of the SEC.

 

[peerless98]

I can and I believe had Fulmer stayed we would have won the East 2 to 4 times. I don’t know about SEC Championship or National Champs but Tennessee would have been much better off and when he did decide to leave the program would have way ahead of where it is today. Firing Fulmer put this program to the bottom of the SEC.

Most folks disagree, but I think it was not necessarily just the firing of CPF that set the program back as much as it was the way it was done. Without a solid plan in place, UT fired him mid-season (a poor one I know) following a trip to the SECCG the year prior with an excellent recruiting class in his pocket.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Most folks disagree, but I think it was not necessarily just the firing CPF that set the program back as much as it was the way it was done. Without a solid plan in place, UT fired him mid-season (a poor one I know) following a trip to the SECCG the year prior with an excellent recruiting class in his pocket.

I realize most disagree with me but most don’t look at logic. After firing Fulmer the next five season they went 28-34. Fulmer lost 51 his entire coaching career here. Can anyone honestly tell me this team would have done that bad with Fulmer here? Now I admit he had a couple of bad years and the wins weren’t there like earlier in his career. But any coach in any sport will go through some down years. Look at Joe Paterno in the late 90’s and early 2000’s he had some bad years but then turned it around. Bobby Bowden and the fact these guys were much older than Fulmer at the time. He would have turned it around and won the East a few times. Especially after Meyers and Tewbow left Florida.

Something fans don’t think about sometimes what you have may not be what you want or the results you want but they are much better than what you can get. Now four coaches later this program is in the worst shape it’s been in a very long time.

 

[Bigun]

I realize most disagree with me but most don’t look at logic. After firing Fulmer the next five season they went 28-34. Fulmer lost 51 his entire coaching career here. Can anyone honestly tell me this team would have done that bad with Fulmer here? Now I admit he had a couple of bad years and the wins weren’t there like earlier in his career. But any coach in any sport will go through some down years. Look at Joe Paterno in the late 90’s and early 2000’s he had some bad years but then turned it around. Bobby Bowden and the fact these guys were much older than Fulmer at the time. He would have turned it around and won the East a few times. Especially after Meyers and Tewbow left Florida.

Something fans don’t think about sometimes what you have may not be what you want or the results you want but they are much better than what you can get. Now four coaches later this program is in the worst shape it’s been in a very long time.

Disagree. We lost 34 games in next 5 years after Fulmer was fired. Fulmers last 5 years here he lost 24 games with 2 losing seasons and not being competitive with Florida and Bama.

We might have lucked up and won the East once Meyer left, but no way were we winning the SEC. The trend was definitely headed down his last few years and this time Cutcliff wasnt coming back to save him.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Disagree. We lost 34 games in next 5 years after Fulmer was fired. Fulmers last 5 years here he lost 24 games with 2 losing seasons and not being competitive with Florida and Bama.

We might have lucked up and won the East once Meyer left, but no way were we winning the SEC. The trend was definitely headed down his last few years and this time Cutcliff wasnt coming back to save him.

And all of those loses were on Fulmer. Damn that’s tough considering Dooley was the coach that messed everything up. Well start with Kitty up and leaving.

Fans don’t see it and for some reason can’t. Firing Fulmer out this team down the toilet and it is still down there. I’m not convinced that this coach is going to pull them out of it.

Ok let’s say we won the East three times after 08 and one SEC championship. Averaged 8.5 wins from 09-15 with couple of ten wins seasons. Now would you take that or take what we have had. We know what we have had what we don’t know is what would have happened with Fulmer and remember we won the East two out of last five years as well. What we’ve been through I’ll take that anyday. This Tennessee team has been a disgrace from where it came from.

 

[alltimevol2331]

And btw. I don’t blame any top coach for not wanting to come here. Think about it this team and their fans wanted a coach fired that had a record of 151-51 with a national championship. No way would any top coach come and try to compete against that.

Firing Fulmer was one of the stupidest thing any university as ever done.

 

[Bigun]

And btw. I don’t blame any top coach for not wanting to come here. Think about it this team and their fans wanted a coach fired that had a record of 151-51 with a national championship. No way would any top coach come and try to compete against that.

Firing Fulmer was one of the stupidest thing any university as ever done.

In hindsight, it certainly is but if Pete Carroll never leaves USC or their 1st 5 choices for HC don't turn them all down, then I think it's a bit different for wins/losses although Kiffin would have blown things up eventually.

I still go back to not having Cutcliff coming back would not have saved things this time.

Just to show where the decline started was the recruiting.

2006 - 23rd
2007 - 3rd (but eventually was a top 5 rated bust class)
2008 - 35th - massively stupid decision on Fulmer's part to take so long in replacing Cutcliff and guys he took w/him.
2009 - 10th (but eventually #1 bust class of all time.

4 straight subpar recruiting classes will decimate any program.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Still would have been much better than what we would have. What we have turned into is Vanderbilt and that is somethjng I never thought I would see in my lifetime especially 12 years or so ago. I said the day Fulmer was fired that this would go way down. In fact, I said that day that this team would not make 5 bowl games in ten years. If I counted right they have made four.

You never mess with a legendary coach and Fulmer for Tennessee is legendary. Not only that but he loves this school, team and state with all he has. His passion for the team and for the team to win is very hard to find. He has it and he had it. He would have been ok and this team would have won several more games than they did. Then once he decided to step away he would have had the team in good shape for the next coach.

 

[alltimevol2331]

2009 - 10th (but eventually #1 bust class of all time.

He never coached these guys. The problem with Dooley and Jone they couldn’t develop their talent. Tennessee could get the number one recruiting class every year but if these high school aren’t developed into SEC talent then they will be a bust. Why is Saban so good? Him and his coaches develop every player they recruit. Very few high school players can come into the SEC and be a super star. They have to be developed.

 

[alltimevol2331]

I do agree with you Cutcliffe would ah e never came back but what if Chaney had came in 09 or 10. His offense was pretty good while he was here with an offensive line that was decent.

 

[Bigun]

2009 - 10th (but eventually #1 bust class of all time.

He never coached these guys. The problem with Dooley and Jone they couldn’t develop their talent. Tennessee could get the number one recruiting class every year but if these high school aren’t developed into SEC talent then they will be a bust. Why is Saban so good? Him and his coaches develop every player they recruit. Very few high school players can come into the SEC and be a super star. They have to be developed.

I should have mentioned that about the 2009 class. I wasn't blaming that on Fulmer, just pointing out that when you have 4 straight terrible recruiting classes, you are going to suffer. Kiffin had to start 2 walk-ons in his first, and only, year here. The talent was pretty lacking overall back then because by the time Fulmer left that was 3 straight bad recruiting classes.

While I don't think he would have turned it around, I do think he deserved the opportunity. I never thought he would because without Cutcliff he just wasn't nearly as effective as a coach, so I was ok with him being replaced because I figured it was going to happen w/in the next 5-7 years anyway.

 

[butchna]

I do agree with you Cutcliffe would ah e never came back but what if Chaney had came in 09 or 10. His offense was pretty good while he was here with an offensive line that was decent.

I don’t think he was on Fulmer’s radar, but yeah...he would have juiced up what they had and it would’ve been fun to see what either Boyd or Petty could’ve done in his scheme.

 

[sjt18]

Seems alot of fans frustration was that after each blowout loss he seemed to be poo poo'ing people being upset by saying "we've won alot of games around here" and "we havent forgotten how to coach".

That's not what people wanted to hear. Fire Clawson, say changes are coming, good recruiting class coming in etc.

JMO.

Clawson didn't cause Fulmer's fall. He was just not smart enough to avoid being swept up in it. Clawson is still a good coach.

Fulmer's problems still would have been there. He wasn't recruiting as well as he had. Program discipline on and off the field was terrible and getting worse. And most of all, Fulmer let personal notions of loyalty get in the way of doing what was right for the program.

A much better question is would Fulmer have still been successful at UT if he had recognized the progressive offensive drop off following Cut's departure sooner. Say if he had quietly asked Sanders to move on in favor of a better OC around 2002.

Fulmer had two different careers at UT. One was successful with Cut as OC. The other was much less successful with anyone else. There aren't that many Cutcliffes out there... but he should have been less patient with Sanders.

 

[FLVOL_79]

QB play in 2005 and 2008 is what got PF fired.

In the SEC if you’re QB isn’t on his way to the NFL you will struggle.

Dejavu

 

[SpookyAction]

He stuck with Sanders because Sanders ran Fulmer's offense. Fulmer was very comfortable running up the gut with a gameplan of winning by a field goal.

We've always been a good coach away from winning the last ten years. Fulmer staying would have been better than what happened, but a good hire for 2009 would have been good too. And better in the long run.

 

[Woke]

Still would have been much better than what we would have. What we have turned into is Vanderbilt and that is somethjng I never thought I would see in my lifetime especially 12 years or so ago. I said the day Fulmer was fired that this would go way down. In fact, I said that day that this team would not make 5 bowl games in ten years. If I counted right they have made four.

You never mess with a legendary coach and Fulmer for Tennessee is legendary. Not only that but he loves this school, team and state with all he has. His passion for the team and for the team to win is very hard to find. He has it and he had it. He would have been ok and this team would have won several more games than they did. Then once he decided to step away he would have had the team in good shape for the next coach.

Personally I’m tired of all the Fulmer nostalgia. He was done after our unacceptable ‘01 SECCG meltdown which was 100% coaching and if I had been the AD I would have forced him to clean house after that embarrassment and stop controlling and start modernizing to get ahead of the curve. That’s not hindsight I said so at the time.

But of course Fulmer couldn’t/wouldn’t do that and was allowed to run our program into the ground chasing The General’s record while new young HC’s like Meyer came in and ate our lunch.

Believe what you want but the game had way passed him by.