If Fulmer had fired Clawson mid season, would he have never been let go?

[onevol74]

Fulmer thought he was bigger than the program in 2008. The program was going down the tubes with him. He was getting boat raced by the power programs in the SEC.

 

[IPleadInsanity]

Seems alot of fans frustration was that after each blowout loss he seemed to be poo poo'ing people being upset by saying "we've won alot of games around here" and "we havent forgotten how to coach".

That's not what people wanted to hear. Fire Clawson, say changes are coming, good recruiting class coming in etc.

JMO.

I have always seen it this way based on the timing of events. They had made a decision to fire Fulmer. I think the plan was to fire and hire end of season, very logical. I think there was some interest in Kiffin but not enough to act early. Then Kiffin upped the ante by adding his father to the package. Now the AD saw this as a must have get and moved forward accordingly making stupid move after stupid move to get this package before someone else did. I have no evidence for this case but its the only reason I can think of for firing a Fulmer level coach for a Kiffin level coach mid-season.

 

[Woke]

I need someone to convince me why firing Fulmer was the right and best decision for this team. Start at 09 through 18 seasons. I don’t want to hear what Fulmer did or didn’t do this is about from Kitty to Pruitt.

Don’t tell me what I’ve told you. Six losing seasons in ten years, zero trip to SECCG, two seasons of 7-6. Now convince me why firing Fulmer was so good????

Btw. How unusual is it for Tennessee to have six losing seasons? Before this debacle, from 1964 to 2008 they only had six losing seasons. Now think about that.

Firing Fulmer was way overdue. Just bc the Admin screwed up the subsequent HC hires doesn’t negate this. As Behr says hindsight and all that. Nice troll job though

 

[Bigun]

I’m still waiting why and how firing Fulmer has helped the past ten years??? Can anyone answer this question if not then I am right. Firing Fulmer was a huge mistake.

I think letting him go was wrong, but I think it's pretty obvious he wasnt going to turn it around. Losing seasons every 2-4 years would have been the norm, just like it is now, except Cutcliff would have been back to save him.

Think about if Cut wasnt fired from Ole Miss, who is Phil going to bring in since Sandets bailed?

Cutcliff even mentioned how shocked he was when he came back about the lack of preparation, attention to detail, and laziness that was throughout the program. If Cut doesnt rebuild Ainge then 06, 07, look alot 08.

 

[Woke]

I think letting him go was wrong, but I think it's pretty obvious he wasnt going to turn it around. Losing seasons every 2-4 years would have been the norm, just like it is now, except Cutcliff would have been back to save him.

Think about if Cut wasnt fired from Ole Miss, who is Phil going to bring in since Sandets bailed?

Cutcliff even mentioned how shocked he was when he came back about the lack of preparation, attention to detail, and laziness that was throughout the program. If Cut doesnt rebuild Ainge then 06, 07, look alot 08.

Yup

 

[GetEmVols]

Seems alot of fans frustration was that after each blowout loss he seemed to be poo poo'ing people being upset by saying "we've won alot of games around here" and "we havent forgotten how to coach".

That's not what people wanted to hear. Fire Clawson, say changes are coming, good recruiting class coming in etc.

JMO.

Who cares?

We have a better coach now anyway.

 

[VOLnMiami]

The problem was Fulmer stuck with Sanders to long. Clawson didn’t get to run his offense he ran Fulmers.

Kinda like now......

 

[05_never_again]

Naw, it was obvious after that UCLA loss that Fulmer was done. That UCLA squad was simply atrocious and they came back and humiliated us. Fulmer did have a good recruiting class in the works but remember the year before we finished in the 40s. If you aren't pulling in Top 15 classes every year you have no shot at winning the SEC. It was a steady decline just like Bowden at FSU.

Can anyone honestly say that they expected Fulmer to right the ship and start winning SEC and NCs once again? I love Fulmer but the writing had been on the wall for some time.

This fixation with Clawson on VN lately is hilarious to me. Truly summer doldrums, although still entertaining.

The really interesting thing about Phil is that his recruiting most certainly slipped in the 2000s, but it was also wildly inconsistent at the same time. The program itself more or less steadily declined, but his year-to-year recruiting was much more volatile. He actually pulled top 5 classes in 2001, 2002, 2005, and 2007. He had a top 10 class in 2003 and the 11th ranked class in 2004. What absolutely killed him was a 29th ranked class in 2006 and a 33rd ranked class in 2008, both of which were nearly bottom-third in the SEC. The 2006 class at least makes a little sense - we were coming off a 5-7 season, but the 2008 class was inexplicable. Richt came on the scene in 2001 and started making some inroads, and by 2005-2008 he and Urban both were just eating our lunch.

From 2003 onward, he wasn't a consistent top 5 recruiter anymore, and when you couple that with a lot of guys who simply busted it makes for a decline.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

I will give you that Tennessee "backdoor-ed" 2007 although I don't subscribe to that, Tennessee won the eastern division and went to the SECCG no matter how it played out......but in 2004 Tennessee went 7-1 in the SEC, beat every eastern team and Alabama and only lost to Auburn. How exactly is that a "backdoor"? Looks like they kicked the door down

Hell, 2007 wasn't backdoored either. We tied with Georgia, and beat the hell out of them head to head. Nothing backdoor about that.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Fulmer thought he was bigger than the program in 2008. The program was going down the tubes with him. He was getting boat raced by the power programs in the SEC.

That still doesn’t tell me why or how the program has been better since he has been gone. I want facts on how firing Fulmer has made this program and team better. Can anyone answer this one easy question since some of you think it was for the best????

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

That still doesn’t tell me why or how the program has been better since he has been gone. I want facts on how firing Fulmer has made this program and team better. Can anyone answer this one easy question since some of you think it was for the best????

They can't give you one. They (the co-signers specifically, but by extension we as a program as a whole) got too big for our britches, but few of those who co-signed that horrendous decision will ever admit it.

 

[Behr]

Kinda like now......

How is that kinda like now?

 

[MurphyVol]

Seems alot of fans frustration was that after each blowout loss he seemed to be poo poo'ing people being upset by saying "we've won alot of games around here" and "we havent forgotten how to coach".

That's not what people wanted to hear. Fire Clawson, say changes are coming, good recruiting class coming in etc.

JMO.

It probably would have bought him another year. Long term, the only thing that could have kept Phil around would have been higher assistant salaries, a competent AD demanding upgrades across the board and Phil having been willing to listen and adapt.

When Phil was named AD, I thought he was a perfect choice because he would remember what trying to run a program on a budget was like and he would not let his hire have to deal with that. So far, he's proven that with the cash he's laid out for Chaney and others.

 

[XknoxvolsX]

Let me get this straight, fellas.
*Pay Fulmer millions to be the head coach for 16 years.
During the last four years he has two losing seasons. One came after a top five preseason ranking.
*Pay him six million dollars to leave the program after he ran into the ground.
*Pay him millions to come back into the program that we paid him millions to leave after he ran it into the ground.

That boys, falls on BAD MANAGEMENT by ADMINISTRATION. Had the university not been a public entity, but rather a corporate one, it would be insolvent!

 

[05_never_again]

Hell, 2007 wasn't backdoored either. We tied with Georgia, and beat the hell out of them head to head. Nothing backdoor about that.

It wasn't a "backdoor" in the sense that other teams needed to have inexplicable losses late in the season to get us there. It just felt kind of odd to end up in Atlanta with blowout losses to Florida and Alabama, a poor performance against Cal (I know that isn't a conference game, but added to the general mood of the season), and barely scraping by Vandy and Kentucky late in the season.

The turning point of that season was October 27 when Georgia beat Florida, giving Florida a third conference loss, and we upset a #15 South Carolina team the same night. That was a huge bounceback game after getting embarrassed by Alabama the previous week. Florida had 3 losses, we had the tiebreaker over Georgia, and the rest of the schedule was soft.

 

[TNnative]

I need someone to convince me why firing Fulmer was the right and best decision for this team. Start at 09 through 18 seasons. I don’t want to hear what Fulmer did or didn’t do this is about from Kitty to Pruitt.

Don’t tell me what I’ve told you. Six losing seasons in ten years, zero trip to SECCG, two seasons of 7-6. Now convince me why firing Fulmer was so good????

Btw. How unusual is it for Tennessee to have six losing seasons? Before this debacle, from 1964 to 2008 they only had six losing seasons. Now think about that.

Much to do with off field incidents and player arrests leading up to his final season. Maybe you will still in grade school at the time and weren't aware of that. You can whine all you want about Kitty to Pruitt,none of the local psychics stepped up and let us know Hamilton and the next ADs would fail to find the right guy. There were several excellent coaches out there Tennessee either low balled or didn't approach to replace Fulmer: Petersen at Boise State and Patterson at TCU were my favorites. Instead for reason I still cannot fathom, he got Kiffin, and the dominoes fell the way they did.

Maybe if they had apologized to Fulmer and hired him back instead of Dooley. Maybe, they could have approached us to be administrators so the right support had been in place. Maybe somebody would have given Fulmer lessons on how to teach his players not to get arrested and he might still be the coach.

It's easy to make complaints about the decision ten years later. Hell, if that would make a difference, we could go back in time, deploy all the battleships in Pearl Harbor, and sink the Japanese fleet in the early morning hours of 12/7/1941 before they get their planes off the carrier decks. But we can't. Hell,man, move along. Whining about changing the past is a waste of time.

 

[Bigun]

Hell, 2007 wasn't backdoored either. We tied with Georgia, and beat the hell out of them head to head. Nothing backdoor about that.

We lost by 39 to a 4 loss Florida team and 24 to a terrible Bama team. It took an insane amount of luck to beat South Carolina, Vandy and KY.

We were basically seen as a lucky team that was the best patient in the ICU from the East.

We were no longer relevant nationally, just like we are now.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

It wasn't a "backdoor" in the sense that other teams needed to have inexplicable losses late in the season to get us there. It just felt kind of odd to end up in Atlanta with blowout losses to Florida and Alabama, a poor performance against Cal (I know that isn't a conference game, but added to the general mood of the season), and barely scraping by Vandy and Kentucky late in the season.

The turning point of that season was October 27 when Georgia beat Florida, giving Florida a third conference loss, and we upset a #15 South Carolina team the same night. That was a huge bounceback game after getting embarrassed by Alabama the previous week. Florida had 3 losses, we had the tiebreaker over Georgia, and the rest of the schedule was soft.

Peyton's senior year we needed LSU and Georgia to beat Florida for us also, and got skullfracked by Nebraska in the bowl game. I'm still proud of that SEC championship though, we won it fair and square.

 

[butchna]

That still doesn’t tell me why or how the program has been better since he has been gone. I want facts on how firing Fulmer has made this program and team better. Can anyone answer this one easy question since some of you think it was for the best????

Who’s said it’s better? Why do you keep demanding someone deny the numbers. Now I DEMAND you show me how he wasn’t going to keep descending as he indisputably was! How the admin that flubbed his replacement hires was going to perform better with him! Give me science and numbers and charts and shizz...boy!

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

We lost by 39 to a 4 loss Florida team and 24 to a terrible Bama team. It took an insane amount of luck to beat South Carolina, Vandy and KY.

We were basically seen as a lucky team that was the best patient in the ICU from the East.

We were no longer relevant nationally, just like we are now.

Surely you jest, we have won 2 conference games in the last 2 years. We have lost 5 of 7 to Vandy. We have been so far from being able to luck into division championship recently it's not remotely close.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Much to do with off field incidents and player arrests leading up to his final season. Maybe you will still in grade school at the time and weren't aware of that. You can whine all you want about Kitty to Pruitt,none of the local psychics stepped up and let us know Hamilton and the next ADs would fail to find the right guy. There were several excellent coaches out there Tennessee either low balled or didn't approach to replace Fulmer: Petersen at Boise State and Patterson at TCU were my favorites. Instead for reason I still cannot fathom, he got Kiffin, and the dominoes fell the way they did.

Maybe if they had apologized to Fulmer and hired him back instead of Dooley. Maybe, they could have approached us to be administrators so the right support had been in place. Maybe somebody would have given Fulmer lessons on how to teach his players not to get arrested and he might still be the coach.

It's easy to make complaints about the decision ten years later. Hell, if that would make a difference, we could go back in time, deploy all the battleships in Pearl Harbor, and sink the Japanese fleet in the early morning hours of 12/7/1941 before they get their planes off the carrier decks. But we can't. Hell,man, move along. Whining about changing the past is a waste of time.

In grade school??? I started going to games I. The 70’s. I was probably donating money to this university while you were still in grade school. I do remember the off field incidents however that just wasn’t a football or Tennessee problem. Georgia, Florida, Miami, Ohio State and many other had players arrested during this time and not only in football but other sports as well.

First I’m not complaining I called this the day Fulmer set at that press conference and I stand by it today. Worst mistake in Tennessee football history and it is still biting us in the ass today.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Who’s said it’s better? Why do you keep demanding someone deny the numbers. Now I DEMAND you show me how he wasn’t going to keep descending as he indisputably was! How the admin that flubbed his replacement hires was going to perform better with him! Give me science and numbers and charts and shizz...boy!

His numbers proves it. We know what happened and has happened since he was gone. Are you seriously going to tell me Fulmer would have fell from 23 most wins his last six years to 70 where we are now.

But you prove my point no one can prove firing Fulmer has been a good, productive, beneficial to this program.

 

[butchna]

His numbers proves it. We know what happened and has happened since he was gone. Are you seriously going to tell me Fulmer would have fell from 23 most wins his last six years to 70 where we are now.

But you prove my point no one can prove firing Fulmer has been a good, productive, beneficial to this program.

That’s where he was headed. Happened to Spurrier and he wasn’t totally dependent on having superior athletes. And no one’s trying to prove your last sentence. You can’t prove that he could have reversed his trending losing. Two 5-7 seasons in 4 and obsession with playing musical chairs with QB’s.

 

[alltimevol2331]

You know what let him stay three more season and if he had losing seasons then let him go.

Firing Fulmer has cursed this program. I said it then from day one and I will continue to say it. He is a legendary coach and person here. His firing was a disgrace and the program and fans have suffered ever since.

Let’s go back up. I’ve read and continue to read how and why he was fired. I need someone to convince me how firing him was the best and right choice. For some reason no one can.

 

[alltimevol2331]

That’s where he was headed. Happened to Spurrier and he wasn’t totally dependent on having superior athletes. And no one’s trying to prove your last sentence. You can’t prove that he could have reversed his trending losing. Two 5-7 seasons in 4 and obsession with playing musical chairs with QB’s.

His trend losing? I’ll take that trend with some East championship than the losing trend we have been in for the last ten years.