Interesting take on Cuonzo/Cal from Cal site

#26
#26
Replace each instance of 'Cuonzo' and 'Martin' with 'Donnie' and 'Tyndall' and it sounds pretty much like our fans' reax.
 
#28
#28
MannyD said:
I liked the product and style of ball we saw this year. It wins championships. But the casual fan wants to be entertained more than they want to watch well executed half court basketball. Save the gimmicky offenses and junk defenses for the mid majors trying to even the playing field. I'll take a traditional 1-5 lineup with half court sets and man to man D.
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You liked the ball we were playing before Martin finally let the players play? The same ball that put up 38,.38, 41, 44...pts in games on national tv the past 2 years?
The ball that was played as we hit a 3 to tie a game up late, only to call a timeout and get outscored 15-5 the rest of the way? Walking it up and getting 10 second calls or launching desperation shots at the shot clock buzzer due to bad offense?
We played well when the team was desperate and 1 loss from the nit. The rest of the ball played, outside of Va, was miserable to watch and not winning basketball. We had 16 wins before the run and most of those wins were over tn techs, tusculums, usc upstates, etc.
 
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#29
#29
keckjm said:
I've never once said people should stop posting specific items on this board, but the Conzo stuff needs to stop. Who cares what someone all the way across the country thinks of our fan base? Who cares about Conzo and his lethargic basketball? I didn't sign the petition, but there's a reason why 30k did. People want excitement and energy, not slow paced and boring. Conzo is a great guy, but he's a boring coach and a terrible in-game play caller. Now, let's all move on from this and get behind our new coach who seams to be a perfect fit for bringing the energy back to TBA.
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It's the off season. There isn't much else to talk about except baseball.
 
#31
#31
Spartacavolus said:
You liked the ball we were playing before Martin finally let the players play? The same ball that put up 38,.38, 41, 44...pts in games on national tv the past 2 years?
The ball that was played as we hit a 3 to tie a game up late, only to call a timeout and get outscored 15-5 the rest of the way? Walking it up and getting 10 second calls or launching desperation shots at the shot clock buzzer due to bad offense?
We played well when the team was desperate and 1 loss from the nit. The rest of the ball played, outside of Va, was miserable to watch and not winning basketball. We had 16 wins before the run and most of those wins were over tn techs, tusculums, usc upstates, etc.
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You expect me to say yes to this? Yes, I loved losing in low scoring games and watching low IQ basketball. You know exactly what I'm talking about. When we were playing well and executing like we were capable, it was fun to watch. That's the style of basketball I prefer to play, that's what I was saying. God forbid someone have an opinion that doesn't completely trash Cuonzo and everything he did here.

The "up-tempo" style of play that most on here seem to want is gimmicky in my opinion. People seem to think that's what they're getting with Donnie. Good luck with that.
 
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#32
#32
KKruzVFL said:
Its funny to here all of these people say that his coaching style and teams were boring. But if you look at the final 4 all of those teams had grind it out styles. Played great defense and didn't score a lot of points. Plain and simple that style wins ballgames. These wide open style offenses look good but will they take you far in the tournament. I don't think so or every program would be doing it.
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Those four teams at least had a semblance of an idea of what to do on offense throughout the course of the season though.

UT made their run off being able to dominate inferior talent down the stretch and through the tournament.

As soon as they hit a team with comparable talent, they lost and it took a near miracle finish to keep it from being a blowout.

Any comparison between Martin and the coaches and teams in the Final Four is waaaay off base IMO. They may play similar styles but Donavan, Calipari etc actually get their players to buy into the system.
 
#33
#33
volholio said:
I don't say this to insult our fans, but just to say it is what it is. In football, and especially in basketball, the fans want somebody to entertain them personally, to make them feel good about themselves. They want a rah rah guy. They don't like a no non-sense guy, who just coaches 'em up and speaks coach speak. They want a friend.

Gene Keady, Bobby Knight, Greg Marshall, for example, would never go over well here because they just coach and don't cheerlead. I think our fans would rather have a carnival barker than a coach. They want a style that goes up and down and up and down and is EXCITING.

Style matters here. Very very much. People didn't like Martin because they didn't feel he gave them enough love. That's what they want. It makes them feel special.
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This fan base will pull for anyone who wins.

Fulmer was never a master showman or rah rah guy.

A week removed from him sneaking out the door and the Cuonzonites are still out in force.
 
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#34
#34
MannyD said:
You expect me to say yes to this? Yes, I loved losing in low scoring games and watching low IQ basketball. You know exactly what I'm talking about. When we were playing well and executing like we were capable, it was fun to watch. That's the style of basketball I prefer to play, that's what I was saying. God forbid someone have an opinion that doesn't completely trash Cuonzo and everything he did here.

The "up-tempo" style of play that most on here seem to want is gimmicky in my opinion. People seem to think that's what they're getting with Donnie. Good luck with that.
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All good man. I think people forget 70 games and remember 10 though. Martin let the guys attack earlier in the shot clock. He also faced stokes up more and fed him earlier. They also stopped running so much motion offense and attacked.
If that type of ball had been played during his tenure prior to desperate times, many wouldn't have had an issue. We didn't jump to averaging almost 80 pts during that stretch by simply executing the ugly motion offense better. He took the reigns off. He even admitted he left wins on the court by not letting his guys loose. Those games were fun to watch. The other 80% were not..
I am excited to see some pressure D though and there is nothing gimmicky about jumping on a team full court after a made bucket. Gimmicky is calling a timeout that lets your opponent regroup and sits down the fans that just stood up.
 
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#35
#35
Spartacavolus said:
You liked the ball we were playing before Martin finally let the players play? The same ball that put up 38,.38, 41, 44...pts in games on national tv the past 2 years?
The ball that was played as we hit a 3 to tie a game up late, only to call a timeout and get outscored 15-5 the rest of the way? Walking it up and getting 10 second calls or launching desperation shots at the shot clock buzzer due to bad offense?
We played well when the team was desperate and 1 loss from the nit. The rest of the ball played, outside of Va, was miserable to watch and not winning basketball. We had 16 wins before the run and most of those wins were over tn techs, tusculums, usc upstates, etc.
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THIS! :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

Half court offense? It was nonexistent. This team didn't understand how to use those down low assets until the last 5 regular season games. Then, and only then, they started playing inside out successfully. It was sickening to watch our boys struggle in the half court as the shot clock wound down, then go into an out of control desperation mode, or launch a forced 3 ball.

Issues like puzzling player rotation, inept time out management, inept inbounds play calling, never challenging the refs, not developing on court leaders......that doesn't include the droning, mumbling, almost curmudgeon like demeanor.

I respected Cuonzo until we saw him parlay a recruiting trip to Arizona into a new job and a deceptive move with said recruit. I don't blame him for moving on, God bless him, but don't preach ethics when you don't live them. And last, I'm sick of hearing how the Tennessee fan base hurt his feelers. If you're a coach in tee ball or any where else, you better have a thick skin, or do something else, especially if you're making $1.5 mil/year, living in a mansion, driving a Benz....be a tougher breed, don't just talk about it.
 
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#37
#37
Good God this entire Cuonzo situation is revisionist history to fit a popular narrative. Can no one admit that we were playing good basketball down the stretch, regardless of the level of the opposition? We had the chance to slip up in any of the later games we played, but we dominated all of them. And to say that Donovan and Calipari are different because they got their players to buy in (and thus inferring that Martin didn't) is way off base. KY fans sure weren't thinking the kids had bought into Cal when they lost to SC down the stretch did they?

Cuonzo's legacy among you people will continue to be twisted and distorted to fit the narrative that he's the worst coach we've had since Houston - the basketball version of Derek Dooley. Some of you create a false dilemma with this Cuonzo situation in which there can be no middle ground. He wasn't a great coach, nor was he incompetent. Be a little more objective and stop lying to yourselves.
 
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#39
#39
Spartacavolus said:
All good man. I think people forget 70 games and remember 10 though. Martin let the guys attack earlier in the shot clock. He also faced stokes up more and fed him earlier. They also stopped running so much motion offense and attacked.
If that type of ball had been played during his tenure prior to desperate times, many wouldn't have had an issue. We didn't jump to averaging almost 80 pts during that stretch by simply executing the ugly motion offense better. He took the reigns off. He even admitted he left wins on the court by not letting his guys loose. Those games were fun to watch. The other 80% were not..
I am excited to see some pressure D though and there is nothing gimmicky about jumping on a team full court after a made bucket. Gimmicky is calling a timeout that lets your opponent regroup and sits down the fans that just stood up.
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I can get with that. Cuonzo changed his philosophy a little, and it worked. He was stubborn at times to not adjust sooner.

I'm referring to up-tempo offenses being gimmicky. No problem with pressure D, although I would prefer to see primarily man to man D. Not a fan of predominate zone, but we'll see what it looks like.
 
#40
#40
SmokeyLives said:
THIS! :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

Half court offense? It was nonexistent. This team didn't understand how to use those down low assets until the last 5 regular season games. Then, and only then, they started playing inside out successfully. It was sickening to watch our boys struggle in the half court as the shot clock wound down, then go into an out of control desperation mode, or launch a forced 3 ball.

Issues like puzzling player rotation, inept time out management, inept inbounds play calling, never challenging the refs, not developing on court leaders......that doesn't include the droning, mumbling, almost curmudgeon like demeanor.

I respected Cuonzo until we saw him parlay a recruiting trip to Arizona into a new job and a deceptive move with said recruit. I don't blame him for moving on, God bless him, but don't preach ethics when you don't live them. And last, I'm sick of hearing how the Tennessee fan base hurt his feelers. If you're a coach in tee ball or any where else, you better have a thick skin, or do something else, especially if you're making $1.5 mil/year, living in a mansion, driving a Benz....be a tougher breed, don't just talk about it.
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You nailed it buddy.
 
#41
#41
Too much drama above. Played well the last 10 or so games in desperate times. Played ugly ball with lack of enthusiasm and instinct for majority of the rest of the games. That's not revisionist. Just reality.
 
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#42
#42
MannyD said:
Good God this entire Cuonzo situation is revisionist history to fit a popular narrative. Can no one admit that we were playing good basketball down the stretch, regardless of the level of the opposition? We had the chance to slip up in any of the later games we played, but we dominated all of them. And to say that Donovan and Calipari are different because they got their players to buy in (and thus inferring that Martin didn't) is way off base. KY fans sure weren't thinking the kids had bought into Cal when they lost to SC down the stretch did they?

Cuonzo's legacy among you people will continue to be twisted and distorted to fit the narrative that he's the worst coach we've had since Houston - the basketball version of Derek Dooley. Some of you create a false dilemma with this Cuonzo situation in which there can be no middle ground. He wasn't a great coach, nor was he incompetent. Be a little more objective and stop lying to yourselves.
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No...the revisionist history is coming from those who completely ignore 80 % of Martin's tenure while at UT and focus on the last three weeks.
 
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#44
#44
Can we not let this go?

He's gone. He had his reasons, SOME of the fans had theirs.

I hope Tyndall comes in and wins now.
 
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#46
#46
JonGrudensAgent said:
No...the revisionist history is coming from those who completely ignore 80 % of Martin's tenure while at UT and focus on the last three weeks.
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Not ignoring 80% of anything. We all may have selective memories. I remember big home wins over ranked Florida and Vandy teams and defending champion UConn in Cuonzo's first year. But I also can't forget loses to AP and CoC. Cuonzo's teams were inconsistent, but I guess it's easy for me to see the upside in a first year coach that takes a team picked to finish 11th in their league (for good reason, zero returning scoring, rebounding, etc; anyone want to draw comparisons to next year's situation?) and have those types of huge wins.

I guess I had a more optimistic / favorable outlook on Cuonzo as a coach. I'm a homer. Nothing I can do about that.
 
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#47
#47
Thought CCM did a great job down the stretch.

I also did not appreciate him saying Tennessee was where he and his family wanted to be just days prior to taking the Cal job.

None of this really matters now.
 
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#48
#48
keckjm said:
I've never once said people should stop posting specific items on this board, but the Conzo stuff needs to stop. Who cares what someone all the way across the country thinks of our fan base? Who cares about Conzo and his lethargic basketball? I didn't sign the petition, but there's a reason why 30k did. People want excitement and energy, not slow paced and boring. Conzo is a great guy, but he's a boring coach and a terrible in-game play caller. Now, let's all move on from this and get behind our new coach who seams to be a perfect fit for bringing the energy back to TBA.
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Pearl stuff needs to stop also.
 
#49
#49
MannyD said:
Not ignoring 80% of anything. We all may have selective memories. I remember big home wins over ranked Florida and Vandy teams and defending champion UConn in Cuonzo's first year. But I also can't forget loses to AP and CoC. Cuonzo's teams were inconsistent, but I guess it's easy for me to see the upside in a first year coach that takes a team picked to finish 11th in their league (for good reason, zero returning scoring, rebounding, etc; anyone want to draw comparisons to next year's situation?) and have those types of huge wins.

I guess I had a more optimistic / favorable outlook on Cuonzo as a coach. I'm a homer. Nothing I can do about that.
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Hey man...you focus on what you like.

I am just looking at the overall reality of the situation.

He isn't hear anymore and we may or may not be better off for it.

Frankly, the way he handled himself the last year here has me leaning towards the former.

The guy got his feelings hurt over a stupid petition and showed that, when push came to shove, he was all about the money.

I don't blame him for that.

What I do blame him for is that very inconsistency that you speak of, good coaches don't have those kinds of ups and downs.

What I do blame him for is doing a job interview on UT's dime while he was supposedly committed to the program and negotiating in good faith then bolting when he got the chance. He could have simply kept his mouth shut after the tournament.

And you mention the good work he did for a team picked 11nth in the league and needing to replace scoring and rebounding his first season here, well...whose fault is it we will be in a similar situation next year?
 
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#50
#50
Spartacavolus said:
With 2 Wooden finalists for poy, that is such a great stat. Here is another. We scored less than 60 seven times. They did once. And I think we lost all those games.
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So they were more consistent scoring, ok. Doesn't change the fact that some people seem to be talking about his system as if it's gonna produce scoring like Kansas & Louisville.

Just thought it was worth pointing out that yes while with lesser talented guys, going against lesser talented defenses,
his teams still averaged less PPG than Tennessee.
 
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