Vols 'Rush Defense' = Fools gold?

#77
#77
kckempf said:
It was something like 5 yards per carry in the first half, which isn’t good either. It’s just going to be that way sometimes this year.
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Most of it was really the QB doing it when there wasn’t anyone to throw to. Was it really good? No. I will give the first have an average grade. Second half was terrible no doubt.
 
#81
#81
VolForLife83 said:
And? Bama ain't had a BAMA defense since Pruitt left. We're headed in the right direction it seems, but our top 5 defense was nothing more than inflation by poor opponents. That's the point here
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But that’s irrelevant isn’t it? I mean most big time programs stats get inflated by beating on scrubs. Why is it ok for them but not us?
 
#83
#83
kckempf said:
The three first half drives where he had a 10+ yard run ended in two touchdowns and a field goal. The “skew” is the relevant content.
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A quarterback breaking free isn’t poor DL play…just isn’t. For most of the game, straight lining up and running they were fairly neutralized. Leagues better than Bama last weekend. If our offensive skill players execute like Bama’s we’re not behind the 8 ball. Cause and effect. This DL is the best we’ve had since 2015…most likely better.
 
#84
#84
butchna said:
A quarterback breaking free isn’t poor DL play…just isn’t. For most of the game, straight lining up and running they were fairly neutralized. Leagues better than Bama last weekend. If our offensive skill players execute like Bama’s we’re not behind the 8 ball. Cause and effect. This DL is the best we’ve had since 2015…most likely better.
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I haven’t said they played poorly. You can do everything right and get pushed out of the way by someone bigger or more talented than yourself.

For what it’s worth, Alabama defended Florida’s running attack better than we did. Florida also had their successful drives against Alabama when they had long runs. Florida’s version of “ball control” this year relies on big plays as much as our own passing offense.
 
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#85
#85
Pacer92 said:
We won’t miss Middleton’s or Emerson’s tackles or gap containment, imo. I wish them well...but, it looks like both either got passed up or they didn’t want to put up the work in.
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Ohhhhhh really?
 
#86
#86
kckempf said:
I haven’t said they played poorly. You can do everything right and get pushed out of the way by someone bigger or more talented than yourself.

For what it’s worth, Alabama defended Florida’s running attack better than we did. Florida also had their successful drives against Alabama when they had long runs. Florida’s version of “ball control” this year relies on big plays as much as our own passing offense.
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I don’t think they did. Would’ve been a runaway if so. Bama pass defense was better and their offense kept the pressure on.
 
#87
#87
butchna said:
I don’t think they did. Would’ve been a runaway if so. Bama pass defense was better and their offense kept the pressure on.
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5.7 yards per carry by Florida against Bama, 7.1 yards per carry against us. Both numbers are awful but our was quantifiably worse.
 
#89
#89
butchna said:
Skewed by QB runs…not on the DL.
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It’s not a skew, it’s exactly what those runs were designed to do, and it led to scores every time. We can’t judge their performance based only on the plays that didn’t lead to scores. You win when you score more points, after all.
 
#90
#90
kckempf said:
It’s not a skew, it’s exactly what those runs were designed to do, and it led to scores every time. We can’t judge their performance based only on the plays that didn’t lead to scores. You win when you score more points, after all.
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It’s not a line up and run at the DL run. It’s designed to go around…hence skew. DL played well.
 
#91
#91
butchna said:
It’s not a line up and run at the DL run. It’s designed to go around…hence skew. DL played well.
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Not that DL performance alone is either relevant or the whole point, but a good DL performance against outside runs would get enough penetration to force the runs to one side and blow up a good bit of them behind the line of scrimmage, or would occupy the gaps well enough to let the second level players get tackles. That didn't happen consistently. Plus half of those long runs came through the middle with the entire DL blocked and TE getting sealing blocks on the second level. Plus the opposing QB hit 21/27 passing from a clean pocket. The DL played poorly, though given their physical disadvantage it's not something that is going to be fixed this year.

We need to get used to the fact that against more physically formidable teams, we're not going to shut down the run, no matter how "well" we play.
 
#92
#92
kckempf said:
Not that DL performance alone is either relevant or the whole point, but a good DL performance against outside runs would get enough penetration to force the runs to one side and blow up a good bit of them behind the line of scrimmage, or would occupy the gaps well enough to let the second level players get tackles. That didn't happen consistently. Plus half of those long runs came through the middle with the entire DL blocked and TE getting sealing blocks on the second level. Plus the opposing QB hit 21/27 passing from a clean pocket. The DL played poorly, though given their physical disadvantage it's not something that is going to be fixed this year.

We need to get used to the fact that against more physically formidable teams, we're not going to shut down the run, no matter how "well" we play.
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You mean more talented teams are going to find a way to produce yards? Sure. The 2016-2017 seasons are our landmarks for bad DL play. This DL is immensely better and with better surrounding performance can shut down anybody. You get used to feeling defeated…I know better.
 
#93
#93
kckempf said:
It’s not a skew, it’s exactly what those runs were designed to do, and it led to scores every time. We can’t judge their performance based only on the plays that didn’t lead to scores. You win when you score more points, after all.
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The longest run was was designed for the QB to outrun our injured LB. It worked. Not our DL fault. Just is what it is. We don’t have the depth to pull guys off the field who aren’t 100%
 
#94
#94
butchna said:
You mean more talented teams are going to find a way to produce yards? Sure. The 2016-2017 seasons are our landmarks for bad DL play. This DL is immensely better and with better surrounding performance can shut down anybody. You get used to feeling defeated…I know better.
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If the players were playing their best last night, making few wrong decisions, and still getting pushed off the ball and allowing huge gains, how is that different from a results perspective from "playing poorly"? 7 yards a carry is still 7 yards a carry, and you have to make up for that kind of defensive porousness the same way no matter whether your players are playing poorly or physically outmatched. Given that our guys are physically outmatched now and we have little depth, I don't expect them to get better throughout the season. We're going to have injuries, and strength is gained in the off-season, not during the season.

I don't think this reflects poorly on the coaching staff or the players' efforts. We just shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking we played well when we gave their offense a historically great performance, and we really shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking this is a good defensive team, or we will be severely let down.
 
#95
#95
kckempf said:
If the players were playing their best last night, making few wrong decisions, and still getting pushed off the ball and allowing huge gains, how is that different from a results perspective from "playing poorly"? 7 yards a carry is still 7 yards a carry, and you have to make up for that kind of defensive porousness the same way no matter whether your players are playing poorly or physically outmatched. Given that our guys are physically outmatched now and we have little depth, I don't expect them to get better throughout the season. We're going to have injuries, and strength is gained in the off-season, not during the season.

I don't think this reflects poorly on the coaching staff or the players' efforts. We just shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking we played well when we gave their offense a historically great performance, and we really shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking this is a good defensive team, or we will be severely let down.
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I’ve explained myself pretty thoroughly (and repeatedly). At this point we’re driving in a circle. 😴
 
#96
#96
volfan_28 said:
The longest run was was designed for the QB to outrun our injured LB. It worked. Not our DL fault. Just is what it is. We don’t have the depth to pull guys off the field who aren’t 100%
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If Harrison (I believe it was him on that play) stays home on that play, it gets handed off to the RB and probably results in a 0-5 yd run
 
#98
#98
butchna said:
I’ve explained myself pretty thoroughly (and repeatedly). At this point we’re driving in a circle. 😴
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I don't even think we disagree, I think you got the idea I was denigrating the players. I'm just trying to be honest about the results and expectations. The title of this thread asks a question and if you look at the results I think the answer to that question is yes.

BTW I found a piece with player grades from last night that largely supports what you've said about the DL performance. Linebackers had the worst grades last night.

PFF Grades: Tennessee at Florida | Rocky Top Insider
 
#100
#100
Stephen69 said:
We've seen this years Vol Rush defense described as 'elite'. Given the competition and the fact that Pitt beat the Vols through the air, is this a justified description? Further, if you look at Pitt's loss to Western Michigan, you'll see that they didn't run well against them, either.

How does Vol Nation expect the Tennessee run defense to fair against an SEC offense?
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Who has describe UT's rush D as elite? I have not seen this.

Our stats were good the first three games, but everyone with a pulse knows that's because we played too really bad teams and an average to above average team wiht no run game. Florida got plenty of yards on us.

I do think our DL is much better than I expected it to be, and that we have a .... wait for it...decent run D. But elite? Seriously, did you make that up? I haven't seen that anywhere.
 
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