Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#1,027
#1,027
WiseOlVol said:
Doesn't need the 6 rings -- team awards -- to be GOAT.

He can't help it if he's the Most Valuable and Most Decorated Player in NFL history.
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No one except also-rans care about personal awards, or anything except rings. That's why post-season play is the standard by which QBs are judged.
 
#1,028
#1,028
NCFisher said:
No one except also-rans care about personal awards, or anything except rings. That's why post-season play is the standard by which QBs are judged.
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No it's not.
Bart Starr is 9-1 in post-season, 5-1 in NFL Championship/SB Games.

By definition, GOAT is an individual title.
 
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#1,030
#1,030
WiseOlVol said:
No it's not.
Bart Starr is 9-1 in post-season, 5-1 in NFL Championship/SB Games.
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Okay, ask Starr if he'd rather have those championship rings or personal accolades.

Like it or not, that's simply the reality; being the trigger man with rings on two hands matters. Manning has folded under that pressure while Brady has not.
 
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#1,031
#1,031
NCFisher said:
No one except also-rans care about personal awards, or anything except rings. That's why post-season play is the standard by which QBs are judged.
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Sorry but that's absolutely stupid to say! So you really believe Brad Johnson or the host of other QB's including Eli Manning are better QB's compared to Jim Kelly or even Dan Marino! It's a damn team sport, not individual sport to get to the Super Bowl and win it. If Belicheat Died tomorrow I would bet Brady wouldn't win another Super bowl without him, it's the exact reason he wanted the QB at 49's gone and he has never signed with another team! It might be pointless because there are facts, but anything can be turned a certain way to someone else's agenda! Like would Marvin Harrison even be HOF without Peyton? He was pretty non spectacular before Peyton got there and after put up 1000 yard seasons like Candy. Dallas Clark, really an average TE excep for a 2009 Season which was over 1000 yards and they went to the Super Bowl to lose to the Saints. People keep saying he had some all star cast or something, but pretty much none of those guys went to do anything without him and to another team.
 
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#1,033
#1,033
Bigorangefaninga said:
Sorry but that's absolutely stupid to say! So you really believe Brad Johnson or the host of other QB's including Eli Manning are better QB's compared to Jim Kelly or even Dan Marino! It's a damn team sport, not individual sport to get to the Super Bowl and win it. If Belicheat Died tomorrow I would bet Brady wouldn't win another Super bowl without him, it's the exact reason he wanted the QB at 49's gone and he has never signed with another team! It might be pointless because there are facts, but anything can be turned a certain way to someone else's agenda! Like would Marvin Harrison even be HOF without Peyton? He was pretty non spectacular before Peyton got there and after put up 1000 yard seasons like Candy. Dallas Clark, really an average TE excep for a 2009 Season which was over 1000 yards and they went to the Super Bowl to lose to the Saints. People keep saying he had some all star cast or something, but pretty much none of those guys went to do anything without him and to another team.
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I can't begin to fathom what you're implying regarding Kaepernick, but it seems to rhyme with 'tin foil hat'.

What's absolutely stupid is to think elite players want anything but rings. QBs are the most important position in "the damn team sport", Sport. Getting most attention for wins or losses is therefore part of the package. Everyone without an axe to grind understands this simple reality.

Would Marino rather polish a ring or hear "best QB to never win a Super Bowl" for the thousandth time?
 
#1,034
#1,034
volfannbama said:
I dont think anyone is saying Manning sucks, but yeah debating a personal opinion is pretty real dumb. Guess we dont have anything better to do.
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I haven't seen anyone say Brady sucks because of his performance, just that he sucks. You know, like Alabama.
 
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#1,036
#1,036
I'm not going to say one bad thing about Peyton and don't believe I have in this thread.

But, this argument has shifted over the years. It used to be about Peyton's numbers vs. Brady's rings. The problem with that is now Brady and Brees are both going to surpass Peyton's numbers.

So, now it's about Peyton's awards that are handed out by the media. The same awards that are bogus at the collegiate level are what we are relying on as the argument for who's best.

The reason why so many look to the postseason isn't just an infatuation with championships. It's that these guys are all great and there isn't much that separates them. TD's, Comp %, Passing Yards, etc. Numbers are very similar among a lot of the guys at the top of the list.

Where there is a disparity is in postseason play where the records and numbers Brady has put up is so outside the bell curve, that many believe the numbers will never be touched. That's the main reason why I think many look at the postseason numbers so much.

I put Brady where I do not just because of the winning, but because I don't think he has played with the talent around him on the offensive side of the ball that other players of that caliber have.

They're both great. Couldn't go wrong with either one. I'd take Brady and that's not a knock on Peyton
 
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#1,037
#1,037
NCFisher said:
Okay, ask Starr if he'd rather have those championship rings or personal accolades.

Like it or not, that's simply the reality; being the trigger man with rings on two hands matters. Manning has folded under that pressure while Brady has not.
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Manning folded under pressure while brady didnt? The highest pressure game possible head to head between these two was the afc championship, let me know mannings record against brady there and try to reconcile it to your statement.
 
#1,038
#1,038
99gator said:
I'm not going to say one bad thing about Peyton and don't believe I have in this thread.

But, this argument has shifted over the years. It used to be about Peyton's numbers vs. Brady's rings. The problem with that is now Brady and Brees are both going to surpass Peyton's numbers.

So, now it's about Peyton's awards that are handed out by the media. The same awards that are bogus at the collegiate level are what we are relying on as the argument for who's best.

The reason why so many look to the postseason isn't just an infatuation with championships. It's that these guys are all great and there isn't much that separates them. TD's, Comp %, Passing Yards, etc. Numbers are very similar among a lot of the guys at the top of the list.

Where there is a disparity is in postseason play where the records and numbers Brady has put up is so outside the bell curve, that many believe the numbers will never be touched. That's the main reason why I think many look at the postseason numbers so much.

I put where Brady where I do not just because of the winning, but because I don't think he has played with the talent around him on the offensive side of the ball that other players of that caliber have.

They're both great. Couldn't go wrong with either one. I'd take Brady and that's not a knock on Peyton
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So, what you are saying is that Peyton is the GOAT...?
 
#1,040
#1,040
Bigorangefaninga said:
We also got the but he's led so many come from behind drives during his career. Would have been nice if Manning would have been on better teams but it shows

Manning- 43 comebacks, 54 game winning drives
Brady- 35 comebacks 44 game winning drives

They are both in rarified air, but I would have liked to have seen Brady on a different team and seen how he did because as shown above, his team went 11-5 without him one year and 3-1 during deflategate! Both missed the playoffs only once while they were actual full season starters. both are 14 time pro bowl selections while Manning was 7time all pro pick and Brady 3 time. One ran his offense pretty much completely which is why his team sucked when he missed a year, while Brady has played under a system pretty much the entire time. Both are great if not the greatest QB's to ever play the game, its pretty much just who do you enjoy the most and the best, Super Bowls are a team accomplishment or we would be saying Brad Johnson is a better QB compared to Dan Marino! Just like with basketball those saying Jordan is better compared to Lebron, Jordan has the rings like Brady while Lebron supposedly is better but has less rings.
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Brady doesn’t have the skillset to go to a very bad team and carry them on his back and make that team a quick playoff contender. Bad teams don’t allow you 5 seconds to throw short passes all day long and they usually don’t have a defense that shuts the other team down. If I own a bad team I’m going to want a qb that has the physical skills like Marino, Rogers, Elway or a qb that is an on field offensive coordinator like manning.
 
#1,042
#1,042
615vols said:
Manning folded under pressure while brady didnt? The highest pressure game possible head to head between these two was the afc championship, let me know mannings record against brady there and try to reconcile it to your statement.
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QBs don't go "head to head", they face opposing defenses. Brady has successfully done that in big games far more often than Manning .
 
#1,050
#1,050
Fact is well never know. What we do know is that the Patriots are amazing, and Brady has been there all the while.

But two things...his QBR yesterday was worse than Manning’s when everyone chalked that game up to the Denver D.

Second, the best way to scientifically prove something is a controlled and blinded study to remove all other variables except the one being studied. I think this is the main point of the Manning apologists (of which I am one). Brady and the Patriots have reaped the rewards of low variability and consistency. Manning was never that fortunate.
 
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