Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#1,004
#1,004
MikeVol44 said:
BRADY is the single consistent PLAYER over the last 17 years on the Patriots. And last time I checked....Belichik doesn't call plays on offense.
How many OCs have the Patriots had over the last 17 years??

How many OCs did Manning have for the Colts? for Denver?
Watch the interviews---it was MANNING'S SYSTEM on offense all those years for the Colts. The OC was just there to give advice.

Manning had the SAME GUYS working the same routes to establish the SAME TIMING over the great majority of his career.
IT was MANNING'S system....and he knew how to get his offense into the right play....but when that broke down, HE WAS DONE!

Brady has NEVER had that luxury!!

IF anything....MANNING is a SYSTEM QB!
Click to expand...

It was definitely Manning calling the offense vs Brady being part of someone else's system.

In 2008 the Patriots were 11-5 without Brady and 3-1 without him during his deflategate suspension
In 2011 the Colts were 2-14 (the second worst team in the NFL without Manning

So I agree that Manning ran HIS offense because he understood football better than anyone to ever play QB, but Brady was a part of system that benefited him way more than he benefited the system. Brady's backups were able to step right into the system and be successful. Manning's backup, not so much. Who's fault was that? The organization for not having a better backup? Or for allowing Manning to be such an important cog in the machine of the Colt's success? Did Manning benefit from having great players around him or were the players around him made great by having Manning as their QB? what if Manning were the QB in New England and Brady were the QB in say, Green Bay? We'll never know, but it's fun to wonder.
 
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#1,005
#1,005
volfannbama said:
Brady sucks....dude rarely even plays in the pro bowl.
Click to expand...

Works both ways and you know it. "Manning sucks, put Marino in his place and he wins double the playoffs and SB's"

"Manning only won two Super Bowls with 2 different teams. He sucks."

Debate gets dumber every day.
 
#1,007
#1,007
Behr said:
Works both ways and you know it. "Manning sucks, put Marino in his place and he wins double the playoffs and SB's"

"Manning only won two Super Bowls with 2 different teams. He sucks."

Debate gets dumber every day.
Click to expand...

We also got the but he's led so many come from behind drives during his career. Would have been nice if Manning would have been on better teams but it shows

Manning- 43 comebacks, 54 game winning drives
Brady- 35 comebacks 44 game winning drives

They are both in rarified air, but I would have liked to have seen Brady on a different team and seen how he did because as shown above, his team went 11-5 without him one year and 3-1 during deflategate! Both missed the playoffs only once while they were actual full season starters. both are 14 time pro bowl selections while Manning was 7time all pro pick and Brady 3 time. One ran his offense pretty much completely which is why his team sucked when he missed a year, while Brady has played under a system pretty much the entire time. Both are great if not the greatest QB's to ever play the game, its pretty much just who do you enjoy the most and the best, Super Bowls are a team accomplishment or we would be saying Brad Johnson is a better QB compared to Dan Marino! Just like with basketball those saying Jordan is better compared to Lebron, Jordan has the rings like Brady while Lebron supposedly is better but has less rings.
 
#1,008
#1,008
PhoenixAZVol said:
Good grief. Here we go again with all of these biased links nobody cares about.
Click to expand...
I could retort every time with, "Good grief, here we go again with childish lies that any rational human being, including most fans of other teams, recognizes as not just homerism but just dishonest."

To say, "I don't like Brady as a person, and will never root for him," is demonstrably opinion, and perfectly valid as such; it can't be disproven or questioned. Conversely, at this juncture, to say he's an average quarterback, or to say he's anything less than the best ever to play the position, is simply willful falsehood.

Lies aren't just balloons that one tosses into the air and we watch them drift into the sky; they're a distortion of the truth, and they make the world a worse place.

Brady has won more playoff games than twenty-eight other franchises; there are only three teams, the Steelers, Cowboys, and the Packers, that have won more playoff games than he has. He has played in the Super Bowl nine out of the nineteen seasons he has been the starter, or just under 50% of the time (47% to be exact). That number alone is so staggering as to separate him from every other pro athlete in modern sports, any sport. For reference, the greatest basketball player in history played fifteen seasons, and only made it to six finals, for a percentage of 40%.

Brady has the record both for the most yards passing in a Super Bowl, and the second-most yards in a Super Bowl - set when he was 40 and 39 years old, respectively.

As I posted previously but which notably none of the detractors responded to, the most game-winning drives by any other QB in the Super Bowl is two, shared by Eli Manning and Terry Bradshaw; Brady has six.

Brady has thrown 73 TDs in the playoffs; the next closest QB is Montana with 45.

Brady has 11,179 passing yards just in the postseason. For perspective, if that were his total lifetime passing yards including the regular season, he would still rank 28th among active QBs. He averages 279 yards per postseason game, across 40 games.

He has thrown one interception or fewer in 30 of 40 postseason games (75% of the time). He averages .85 interception per postseason game, and has had 19 postseason games in which he threw zero picks. He has thrown 33 total interceptions in 40 playoff games, for a TD/INT ratio of 2.21:1.

For reference, Peyton Manning played in 27 postseason games. He threw for 7,339 yards, for an average of 271 yards per game. He has thrown 40 TDs and 25 INTs in those 27 games, for a TD/INT ratio of 1.6:1 (for those of you who are math-challenged, Brady has a 38% better TD/INT ratio).

Brady is the all-time leader in total yards passing in the Super Bowl with 2,838; he has averaged 315 yards per game passing in the Super Bowl, over nine games. The next-best QB in total yards passing in the SB is Warner, with 1,156 over three games (he went 1-2 in those games). Peyton Manning has thrown for 1,001 total yards over four Super Bowls, for an average of 250 yards per game (that's 65 yards per game less than Brady).

Brady has thrown six interceptions in nine Super Bowls, for an average of .67 INT per game. Peyton Manning has thrown five interceptions in four Super Bowls, for an average of 1.25 INT per game, or 87% more INTs per game in the game that counts the most. Manning played one Super Bowl with Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark as his receiving corps and one with Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Dallas Clark; in both of the aforementioned games he had Joseph Addai as his running back. The third Super Bowl for Manning featured Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, and Julius Thomas as receivers and Knowshon Moreno and C.J. Anderson as running backs; his final SB had him with Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas, and Owen Daniels as receiving corps, and C.J. Anderson as running back.

Brady's offensive skill players for the last four SBs have looked like this:
2014: WR/TEs Julian Edelman, Rob Gronkowski, Danny Amendola, Brandon Lafell; RBs Legarrette Blount and Shane Vereen
2016: WR/TEs Edelman, Amendola, Malcolm Mitchell, Martellus Bennett, Chris Hogan; RBs James White, Blount, Dion Lewis
2017: WR/TEs Amendola, Gronkowski, Brandin Cooks (concussed in the first half and out for the rest of the game), Hogan, Phillip Dorsett; RBs Lewis, White, Rex Burkhead
2018: WR/TEs Edelman, Gronkowski, Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, Dorsett; RBs Sony Michel, Burkhead, White

In 2007 his receivers were Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, and Ben Watson; RBs were Laurence Maroney and a 31-year-old Kevin Faulk.
In 2011 receivers were Welker, 32-year-old Deion Branch, 34-year-old Chad Johnson, Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez; RBs were Benjarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead.

2001: WR/TEs David Patten, Troy Brown, Jermaine Wiggins; RBs Faulk, J.R. Redmond, Antowain Smith

2003: WR/TEs David Givens, Branch, Brown, Daniel Graham; RBs Faulk, Smith
 
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#1,016
#1,016
lifeisdeep said:
I could retort every time with, "Good grief, here we go again with childish lies that any rational human being, including most fans of other teams, recognizes as not just homerism but just dishonest."

To say, "I don't like Brady as a person, and will never root for him," is demonstrably opinion, and perfectly valid as such; it can't be disproven or questioned. Conversely, at this juncture, to say he's an average quarterback, or to say he's anything less than the best ever to play the position, is simply willful falsehood.

Lies aren't just balloons that one tosses into the air and we watch them drift into the sky; they're a distortion of the truth, and they make the world a worse place.

Brady has won more playoff games than twenty-eight other franchises; there are only three teams, the Steelers, Cowboys, and the Packers, that have won more playoff games than he has. He has played in the Super Bowl nine out of the nineteen seasons he has been the starter, or just under 50% of the time (47% to be exact). That number alone is so staggering as to separate him from every other pro athlete in modern sports, any sport. For reference, the greatest basketball player in history played fifteen seasons, and only made it to six finals, for a percentage of 40%.

Brady has the record both for the most yards passing in a Super Bowl, and the second-most yards in a Super Bowl - set when he was 40 and 39 years old, respectively.

As I posted previously but which notably none of the detractors responded to, the most game-winning drives by any other QB in the Super Bowl is two, shared by Eli Manning and Terry Bradshaw; Brady has six.

Brady has thrown 73 TDs in the playoffs; the next closest QB is Montana with 45.

Brady has 11,179 passing yards just in the postseason. For perspective, if that were his total lifetime passing yards including the regular season, he would still rank 28th among active QBs. He averages 279 yards per postseason game, across 40 games.

He has thrown one interception or fewer in 30 of 40 postseason games (75% of the time). He averages .85 interception per postseason game, and has had 19 postseason games in which he threw zero picks. He has thrown 33 total interceptions in 40 playoff games, for a TD/INT ratio of 2.21:1.

For reference, Peyton Manning played in 27 postseason games. He threw for 7,339 yards, for an average of 271 yards per game. He has thrown 40 TDs and 25 INTs in those 27 games, for a TD/INT ratio of 1.6:1 (for those of you who are math-challenged, Brady has a 38% better TD/INT ratio).

Brady is the all-time leader in total yards passing in the Super Bowl with 2,838; he has averaged 315 yards per game passing in the Super Bowl, over nine games. The next-best QB in total yards passing in the SB is Warner, with 1,156 over three games (he went 1-2 in those games). Peyton Manning has thrown for 1,001 total yards over four Super Bowls, for an average of 250 yards per game (that's 65 yards per game less than Brady).

Brady has thrown six interceptions in nine Super Bowls, for an average of .67 INT per game. Peyton Manning has thrown five interceptions in four Super Bowls, for an average of 1.25 INT per game, or 87% more INTs per game in the game that counts the most. Manning played one Super Bowl with Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark as his receiving corps and one with Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Dallas Clark; in both of the aforementioned games he had Joseph Addai as his running back. The third Super Bowl for Manning featured Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, and Julius Thomas as receivers and Knowshon Moreno and C.J. Anderson as running backs; his final SB had him with Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas, and Owen Daniels as receiving corps, and C.J. Anderson as running back.

Brady's offensive skill players for the last four SBs have looked like this:
2014: WR/TEs Julian Edelman, Rob Gronkowski, Danny Amendola, Brandon Lafell; RBs Legarrette Blount and Shane Vereen
2016: WR/TEs Edelman, Amendola, Malcolm Mitchell, Martellus Bennett, Chris Hogan; RBs James White, Blount, Dion Lewis
2017: WR/TEs Amendola, Gronkowski, Brandin Cooks (concussed in the first half and out for the rest of the game), Hogan, Phillip Dorsett; RBs Lewis, White, Rex Burkhead
2018: WR/TEs Edelman, Gronkowski, Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, Dorsett; RBs Sony Michel, Burkhead, White

In 2007 his receivers were Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, and Ben Watson; RBs were Laurence Maroney and a 31-year-old Kevin Faulk.
In 2011 receivers were Welker, 32-year-old Deion Branch, 34-year-old Chad Johnson, Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez; RBs were Benjarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead.

2001: WR/TEs David Patten, Troy Brown, Jermaine Wiggins; RBs Faulk, J.R. Redmond, Antowain Smith

2003: WR/TEs David Givens, Branch, Brown, Daniel Graham; RBs Faulk, Smith
Click to expand...

Ouch.

I can only add: Love Manning, but in big games and someone holding a gun to your wife's head, pick Brady.
 
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#1,017
#1,017
05_never_again said:
Biggest differential between what Brady has and what Peyton had is defense. Brady always has an above average defense, sometimes a great defense.

When Peyton had an above average or great defense, it was an anomaly. His Colts defenses were routinely average or even below average. It's no coincidence that Peyton won his SB with the Colts with by far the best defense he had while in Indy, and he won the SB in Denver with an incredible defense.
Click to expand...

Brady absolutely on average had better defenses with the Pats, but:

Manning's top defenses: 2012 Denver Broncos #4 Defense, 2009 Colts #8, 2008 Def #7, 2007 Def #1, 2005 Colts #2 Def, 2002 Colts #7. Also in 2006 when Peyton won his first Super Bowl, Colts were ranked # 23 Def

Feel free to argue the point but for God's sake please quit repeating this falsehood about 2006. If you're tech savvy enough to register and post to an internet forum, surely you can do a basic Google search

The truth actually SUPPORTS Peyton if that's the side you are arguing
 
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#1,018
#1,018
volfannbama said:
Brady sucks....dude rarely even plays in the pro bowl.
Click to expand...

You don't understand the difference between All-Pro and those who get invitation to the Pro Bowl.

The All-Pro title is the for the best position player for the year. Four-six QBs get invited to the Pro Bowl.

There's only one (1) All Pro QB every year.
 
#1,020
#1,020
crparker21 said:
Not in his last game or last season.
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The guy had a career-ending injury at the beginning of the season.

Go check his performance in the clutch late:

G16 @ SD -- Came of bench to comeback and secure 1st Seed.
Divisional v Pitt -- Engineered 13-play 65-yard 7 minute drive late to win.
AFC-CG v Pats -- 2 TDs, No Ints. Brady had 1 TD and 3 Ints.
 
#1,023
#1,023
Behr said:
Works both ways and you know it. "Manning sucks, put Marino in his place and he wins double the playoffs and SB's"

"Manning only won two Super Bowls with 2 different teams. He sucks."

Debate gets dumber every day.
Click to expand...
I dont think anyone is saying Manning sucks, but yeah debating a personal opinion is pretty real dumb. Guess we dont have anything better to do.
 
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#1,024
#1,024
WiseOlVol said:
You don't understand the difference between All-Pro and those who get invitation to the Pro Bowl.

The All-Pro title is the for the best position player for the year. Four-six QBs get invited to the Pro Bowl.

There's only one (1) All Pro QB every year.
Click to expand...
Wow
 
#1,025
#1,025
WiseOlVol said:
If the majority of the credit for the Pats success went to Brady, he'd have more NFL MVPs and All-Pros.

In 19 years, he has 3 of each. Only had 2 of each when GOAT-Manning retired.
Click to expand...

Ask Manning if he'd rather have MVP awards or six rings.
 
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