Heupel vs Fulmer

[carolinaviking]

Just to note:

Fulmer went 9-2-1 in his second year, then 8-4 in his third year. I'm guessing lots of fans were very skeptical of his potential after that third year.

He then went 11-1 (damn Gators!) in his fourth year.

We get Bama and UF at Neyland next year, and we *may have a better QB and receiving corps.

 

[Zues1]

Just to note:

Fulmer went 9-2-1 in his second year, then 8-4 in his third year. I'm guessing lots of fans were very skeptical of his potential after that third year.

He then went 11-1 (damn Gators!) in his fourth year.

We get Bama and UF at Neyland next year, and we *may have a better QB and receiving corps.

How's the oline looking for 2024?

 

[EZE]

I’m still 100% bullish on CJH.

Bottom line. We are not very good at the QB position, but the rest of the team is very competitive with Alabama. Complain about the coaching all you want, but they game planned a way to be in a one-score game late on the road against Alabama…and we had the ball.

Milton just isn’t the guy to put the team on his back and carry it down the field. Instead, he held the ball too long…again…. The coaches simply cannot trust him on downfield routes.

If Nico is anywhere near as-advertised, CJH can get back to running his real offense and it will get very fun very soon.

 

[MurphyVol]

Yes, that 8-4 season we lost to UF 31-0 and Iof course after the game I was kicking stuff and talking about how Phil wasn't the guy, etc...

One big difference between then and now was recruiting. Phil went on a 4-5 year stretch where he was signing the #1 or #2 class in the SEC every year. Those were top 5 classes and included a #1 overall.


When we look at JH so far (and I'm including Texas and Oklahoma because they're here next year) he has signed:

The 9th, 8th and 6th best teams in the SEC so far.

As I've consistently said since Phil started his slide in the 2000s, you need to sign somewhere around the top 1-3ish best classes in the conference every year or you'll need to be one of the best talent developers/strategists/Gameday coaches in the history of all college football to win the conference.

 

[Mikevol1964]

Yes, that 8-4 season we lost to UF 31-0 and Iof course after the game I was kicking stuff and talking about how Phil wasn't the guy, etc...

One big difference between then and now was recruiting. Phil went on a 4-5 year stretch where he was signing the #1 or #2 class in the SEC every year. Those were top 5 classes and included a #1 overall.


When we look at JH so far (and I'm including Texas and Oklahoma because they're here next year) he has signed:

The 9th, 8th and 6th best teams in the SEC so far.

As I've consistently said since Phil started his slide in the 2000s, you need to sign somewhere around the top 1-3ish best classes in the conference every year or you'll need to be one of the best talent developers/strategists/Gameday coaches in the history of all college football to win the conference.

What you not saying though is Phil took over a program that was already stable. Josh took over a dumpster fire with NCAA sanctions looming. To compare the two is disingenuous

 

[MurphyVol]

What you not saying though is Phil took over a program that was already stable. Josh took over a dumpster fire with NCAA sanctions looming. To compare the two is disingenuous

Disingenuous or not, the recruiting levels are what they are. We haven't won the SEC in a quarter century and we won't win it again until we string together 4-5 years of top 5 classes.

 

[GAVol]

Just to note:

Fulmer went 9-2-1 in his second year, then 8-4 in his third year. I'm guessing lots of fans were very skeptical of his potential after that third year.

He then went 11-1 (damn Gators!) in his fourth year.

We get Bama and UF at Neyland next year, and we *may have a better QB and receiving corps.

Maybe there was skepticism early on, but I think most could see that part of the early problems in Fulmer’s year 3 were due to the QB turmoil after Jerry Colquitt got hurt in the opener. By the end of the year, we had Peyton Manning going full blast and it was obvious what direction we were headed.

 

[Majors]

What you not saying though is Phil took over a program that was already stable. Josh took over a dumpster fire with NCAA sanctions looming. To compare the two is disingenuous

Also a weaker conference back in the 90’s

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Just to note:

Fulmer went 9-2-1 in his second year, then 8-4 in his third year. I'm guessing lots of fans were very skeptical of his potential after that third year.

He then went 11-1 (damn Gators!) in his fourth year.

We get Bama and UF at Neyland next year, and we *may have a better QB and receiving corps.

Can't compare them. Heupel took over a mess.

 

[vol94]

Also a weaker conference back in the 90’s

And weaker coaches. Spurrier and Fulmer were the best coaches. UGA had avg coaches as did Bama after Stallings left.

 

[Orangeslice13]

How's the oline looking for 2024?

Good question

 

[Cartervol]

Fulmer got handed the keys to a Ferrari, Heupel had to fish the key out of a toilet bowl. The comparison isn't fair. I will say Fulmer would have punted the ball.. Probably lined his QB under center if he did go for it on 4th and nothing..

 

[#1fulmerite]

We may never have another HOF coach like Fulmer again! Should have given him a sabbatical. That makes the most sense!

 

[Caz]

We must not forget that Fulmer had Cutcliff too.

 

[AthensVol2007]

How's the oline looking for 2024?

The trenches are going to be decimated after this year.

 

[MurphyVol]

Fulmer got handed the keys to a Ferrari, Heupel had to fish the key out of a toilet bowl. The comparison isn't fair. I will say Fulmer would have punted the ball.. Probably lined his QB under center if he did go for it on 4th and nothing..

I'm not sure anyone is saying it's a fair comparison, I believe the op was saying we should be patient.

Personally I think everyone is reinforcing the point that I made e earlier about recruiting. "it was easier back then"- "less talented coaches back then"- "the SEC was smaller back then" etc

All this just reinforces my belief that the only way to ever compete for the SEC title again is to elevate our level of recruiting, possibly to a level even higher than peak Fulmer.

 

[Vol737]

How's the oline looking for 2024?

Looking like we need to get at least three from the portal.

 

[oldfiji]

What you not saying though is Phil took over a program that was already stable. Josh took over a dumpster fire with NCAA sanctions looming. To compare the two is disingenuous

This is what everyone seems to forget. Cornbread left us pretty bare. CJH has turned this around. We are PO’d that we lost a winnable game at the Gumps. Never felt that way for years befor he got here

 

[AthensVol2007]

I’m still 100% bullish on CJH.

Bottom line. We are not very good at the QB position, but the rest of the team is very competitive with Alabama. Complain about the coaching all you want, but they game planned a way to be in a one-score game late on the road against Alabama…and we had the ball.

Milton just isn’t the guy to put the team on his back and carry it down the field. Instead, he held the ball too long…again…. The coaches simply cannot trust him on downfield routes.

If Nico is anywhere near as-advertised, CJH can get back to running his real offense and it will get very fun very soon.

Stop throwing Joe under the bus for today. The man completed 68% of his passes for 270 yards 2 TD’s 0 INT’s on the road, vs. one of the best secondaries (if not the best) in this league. Throw in 60 yards rushing (after sacks) and I’d argue Joe is the only thing that kept us in this game. The run game was non-existent outside of Joe today. Picking out a couple of overthrows and using that as justification is lazy. Defense gave up an 8 min drive to end and begin the 3rd and 4th quarters. That was a killer drive not being able to get off the field.

 

[Cartervol]

I'm not sure anyone is saying it's a fair comparison, I believe the op was saying we should be patient.

Personally I think everyone is reinforcing the point that I made e earlier about recruiting. "it was easier back then"- "less talented coaches back then"- "the SEC was smaller back then" etc

All this just reinforces my belief that the only way to ever compete for the SEC title again is to elevate our level of recruiting, possibly to a level even higher than peak Fulmer.

It's how Saban got great. It's always been the Jimmy's and the Joe's.. Not our Joe obviously but you get the point. X's and O's play a smaller part to overall talent. Bama has had top classes his whole time there.

 

[Jimmyandjoes]

Good question

Its looking like the answer is in the portal

 

[MurphyVol]

It's how Saban got great. It's always been the Jimmy's and the Joe's.. Not our Joe obviously but you get the point. X's and O's play a smaller part to overall talent. Bama has had top classes his whole time there.

Yes, it always has been. I played with a guy in high school that was a 3 year starter for NC State. If you're old enough to remember the peak Bobby Bowden days (Charlie Ward and crew), that was when he played.

He says to this day that they didn't do anything special. He said pretty much every team has a decent starting 22 and a good head coach. He said talented depth isn't a big thing, it's the ONLY thing. This is why you see great teams pull away from average teams in the third quarter.

He said when they played FSU, he played every snap while they rotated 3 hs all Americans at defensive end.

 

[NighthawkVol]

How's the oline looking for 2024?

That is the biggest question. We won’t know until a) portal season, b) we see who is returning among those who might leave, and c) next fall when we see how the young guys develop.

 

[loosecannon]

Yes, that 8-4 season we lost to UF 31-0 and Iof course after the game I was kicking stuff and talking about how Phil wasn't the guy, etc...

One big difference between then and now was recruiting. Phil went on a 4-5 year stretch where he was signing the #1 or #2 class in the SEC every year. Those were top 5 classes and included a #1 overall.


When we look at JH so far (and I'm including Texas and Oklahoma because they're here next year) he has signed:

The 9th, 8th and 6th best teams in the SEC so far.

As I've consistently said since Phil started his slide in the 2000s, you need to sign somewhere around the top 1-3ish best classes in the conference every year or you'll need to be one of the best talent developers/strategists/Gameday coaches in the history of all college football to win the conference.

Phil was an unbelievable recruiter. His squads were loaded with talent. His coaching and drive, he would fall asleep in meetings, declined greatly but recruiting was good all the way through.

 

[Cartervol]

Yes, it always has been. I played with a guy in high school that was a 3 year starter for NC State. If you're old enough to remember the peak Bobby Bowden days (Charlie Ward and crew), that was when he played.

He says to this day that they didn't do anything special. He said pretty much every team has a decent starting 22 and a good head coach. He said talented depth isn't a big thing, it's the ONLY thing. This is why you see great teams pull away from average teams in the third quarter.

He said when they played FSU, he played every snap while they rotated 3 hs all Americans at defensive end.

Oh yeah. Vols are still thin on the Oline. They don't have SEC quality two deep there. In a little better shape defensively but when you're getting your jersey ripped off you'd never know it..