Crime and the United States

I guess for me not boils down to this....if the penalty for stealing from an individual is losing a hand vs stealing from a business is just 2 years in jail which do you think will happen more??
the overall crime rate would be the same.

someone who is hungry, has hungry kids, etc, is going to rob somebody. no matter if they are risking death or not. Its why in the middle ages when poaching the kings deer was a death sentence it still happened.

right now their options are: No crime, and probably die. or crime, and maybe go to jail. even if death was on the table for these small crimes that is a risk they are already facing.

like someone said, its the economy stupid.

you give them an economy where they can find work, and afford to live where they are, and you have removed most of the incentive to commit crime, and you have also made the same punishment (jail) a far worse thing than it was before, relatively speaking.

for many life in jail is better than life outside of jail. unless you fully support Judge Dredd style "justice", I am not sure how you make it bad enough to do otherwise.
 
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other than harsher penalty, what would you propose to reduce this crime? Lock toothpaste in plexiglass?
remove the politicians, and the mindset that elected them. focus the government to ensure that people can legally employ themselves while not artificially increasing things like energy costs, or inflation in general. I would look at focuses on small businesses instead of red tape that encourages corporations.

there is no immediate fix, imo. even if you shot everyone stealing the toothpaste, you would literally have to depopulate the area to keep it from happening. poor is poor.
 
remove the politicians, and the mindset that elected them. focus the government to ensure that people can legally employ themselves while not artificially increasing things like energy costs, or inflation in general. I would look at focuses on small businesses instead of red tape that encourages corporations.

there is no immediate fix, imo. even if you shot everyone stealing the toothpaste, you would literally have to depopulate the area to keep it from happening. poor is poor.
fairy dust solutions. Just face it, they steal because they can get away with it with a slap on the wrist if even that.
 
fairy dust solutions. Just face it, they steal because they can get away with it with a slap on the wrist if even that.
they steal because its the most reliable way to provide for themselves.

yeah it doesn't completely fix the issue if you fix the economy, but neither would shooting every criminal. my fairy dust is just a lot less violent than yours and at least has some historical backing.
 
they steal because its the most reliable way to provide for themselves.

yeah it doesn't completely fix the issue if you fix the economy, but neither would shooting every criminal. my fairy dust is just a lot less violent than yours and at least has some historical backing.
you are the one bringing up shooting people..hyperbolic much?
 
you are the one bringing up shooting people..hyperbolic much?
I am not on the harsher punishment side. we already have the death penalty, not sure how much more harsh than that you want to get.

are the crime rates any lower in states with death penalties than those without? Don't get me the best vs the worse, because I am sure the opposite applies just as well.
 
I am not on the harsher punishment side. we already have the death penalty, not sure how much more harsh than that you want to get.

are the crime rates any lower in states with death penalties than those without? Don't get me the best vs the worse, because I am sure the opposite applies just as well.
I wasnt speaking about the DP at all.

But I bet if a thief thinks he will get shot committing shoplifting, then shoplifting is dramatically reduced. Not that I advocate.

Severity of Consequence drives human behavior, just as we were children.
 
I am not on the harsher punishment side. we already have the death penalty, not sure how much more harsh than that you want to get.

are the crime rates any lower in states with death penalties than those without? Don't get me the best vs the worse, because I am sure the opposite applies just as well.

Crime rate isn’t the gospel and shouldn’t stop the law from being enforced.
 
I wasnt speaking about the DP at all.

But I bet if a thief thinks he will get shot committing shoplifting, then shoplifting is dramatically reduced. Not that I advocate.

Severity of Consequence drives human behavior, just as we were children.
but if you don't remove the base conditions creating the bad behavior, whether for kids or crime, you aren't going to end the bad behavior. you are just going to punish more and more people.

when your kid hits you to get your attention, do you turn around and smack the crap out of them until they learn not to? or do you punish once, and then tell them to use their words so that they don't hit again? In that case what has the better long term effect of stopping them from hitting you, or others? You hitting them back, or them learning to use their words and finding a better solution than the bad behavior that got them punished.

in this particular case its obviously a lot more complicated than learning to vocalize, but most of these people have a problem that isn't getting addressed. punishing them more and more and doesn't remove that problem. it isn't the government's job to give them free money, but the government needs to get back to a role which doesn't take away valid opportunities from these people.
 
where did I say to stop enforcing anything?

I am just saying that increasing punishment isn't an effective deterrent.

It doesn’t have to be a deterrent. Believe it or not there are people who don’t care about rules, laws, or consequences. That’s just who they are. In many cases they’re the ones with a rap sheet a mile long that gets off easy multiple times right before they commit a heinous crime.
 
The difference between a life in prison and a capital is like 500k due to the appeal process for capital cases..but If you eliminate the extra appeals for a capital case your already saving 500k
Without the extra appeals we're close to North Korea.
 
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can someone explain to me the difference in this and the student orotests, or blocking roads? the double standards are infuriating.
 

can someone explain to me the difference in this and the student orotests, or blocking roads? the double standards are infuriating.

During the Slick Willy regime the Dems passed a bill that made it a felony to block access to abortion clinics or intimidate those visiting to kill their babies. Comes with harsh penalties also. The RINO Republicucks as usual went along with it.
 

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