2014 Illinois SG Peyton Allen

#176
#176
CAVol said:
Which of our 4 commits qualifies as a "hopeful under the radar player?" How does Allen qualify as that with programs such as Michigan, UNC, Iowa, Wichita State, Butler and Oklahoma state being involved?
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I consider every recruit thats not in the top 100 in basketball and ones not in the top 300 in football as an under the radar type recruit.
 
#177
#177
SJAVol32 said:
I wouldn't classify Cofer nor Austin as "Under the radar" players. This current class is the best class CCM has brought in and I expect next years class to improve upon this one.
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Do you think Cofer and Austin get a 4th star b4 all is done? Cause I am completely speculating.
 
#178
#178
Lefteye said:
Do you think Cofer and Austin get a 4th star b4 all is done? Cause I am completely speculating.
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Both I would think Cofer might move up in the ESPN he's right at 100 and having a great season. Austin was in the top 100 for ESPN but dropped out. Still a 4 star. I think they may move up on other sites as well.
 
#179
#179
Lefteye said:
Do you think Cofer and Austin get a 4th star b4 all is done? Cause I am completely speculating.
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3 out of the 4 are 1 point away from being composite 4 stars on 24/7. I personally think ESPN is the best when it comes to basketball rankings
 
#180
#180
SJAVol32 said:
Both I would think Cofer might move up in the ESPN he's right at 100 and having a great season. Austin was in the top 100 for ESPN but dropped out. Still a 4 star. I think they may move up on other sites as well.
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:hi:

btw, even if neither do I still wouldn't consider those 2 an under the radar/project type
 
#181
#181
SJAVol32 said:
3 out of the 4 are 1 point away from being composite 4 stars on 24/7. I personally think ESPN is the best when it comes to basketball rankings
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I think ESPN is the worst recruiting service for all sports but even they only have us at 30th in the country.
 
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#182
#182
Lefteye said:
:hi:

btw, even if neither do I still wouldn't consider those 2 an under the radar/project type
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Me either. Both are starters in a year or so IMO. This class is good. Just have to build around Darius and Hubbs. We have athletes next season just no experience. We need a JUCO big and I could see us having a good season.
 
#183
#183
volbeast33 said:
I consider every recruit thats not in the top 100 in basketball and ones not in the top 300 in football as an under the radar type recruit.
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What's the real difference in being ranked #95 and #105 though? What makes one any more under the radar than the other? There are numerous NBA players who fall in the #101-#150 category coming out of high school. Hanging such a strong opinion on a ranking system (someone else's opinion) just seems like allowing someone else to do the thinking for you. It also seems like flawed logic.
 
#184
#184
volbeast33 said:
I think ESPN is the worst recruiting service for all sports but even they only have us at 30th in the country.
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Yeah I don't think this is a program changing class, but we aren't at that point to where CCM can pull in high 4 stars and 5 stars. I think if he makes the tourney this year and wins a game and then McRae and Stokes both get drafted he'll have more leverage with recruits. Because whether people want to believe it or not CCM developed McRae. We'll see.
 
#187
#187
volbeast33 said:
I consider every recruit thats not in the top 100 in basketball and ones not in the top 300 in football as an under the radar type recruit.
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Diamond in the rough and under the radar typically mean it's someone no one else is really looking at. That's just not true for any of these guys.
 
#188
#188
cncchris33 said:
What's the real difference in being ranked #95 and #105 though? What makes one any more under the radar than the other? There are numerous NBA players who fall in the #101-#150 category coming out of high school. Hanging such a strong opinion on a ranking system (someone else's opinion) just seems like allowing someone else to do the thinking for you. It also seems like flawed logic.
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I didnt say it was the end all of recruiting and yes players can definitely be successful outside the top 100. The rankings are a fairly good indicator of the type of talent we are bringing in.

Do you honestly think we can be a consistent tourney team and top 25 team bringing in classes that are outside the top 25 recruiting rankings and middle of the pack in the SEC?
 
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#189
#189
CAVol said:
Diamond in the rough and under the radar typically mean it's someone no one else is really looking at. That's just not true for any of these guys.
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I know which I explained what I considered under the radar guys but this kind of reasoning about Zo's classes seems to be the same as what was said about Dooley's classes.
 
#190
#190
volbeast33 said:
I know which I explained what I considered under the radar guys but this kind of reasoning about Zo's classes seems to be the same as what was said about Dooley's classes.
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But your under the radar definition is flawed. There were high major schools in on every one of our recruits. Under the radar implies unknown as does diamond in the rough. None of our guys are unknown and if they could and would decommit wold have multiple high majors knocking on their door. Diamond in the rough guys when let go have low major and bad mid major programs on their doorstep.
 
#191
#191
CAVol said:
But your under the radar definition is flawed. There were high major schools in on every one of our recruits. Under the radar implies unknown as does diamond in the rough. None of our guys are unknown and if they could and would decommit wold have multiple high majors knocking on their door. Diamond in the rough guys when let go have low major and bad mid major programs on their doorstep.
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Ok instead of under the radar......lower rated guys....is that better?
 
#192
#192
volbeast33 said:
I didnt say it was the end all of recruiting and yes players can definitely be successful outside the top 100. The rankings are a fairly good indicator of the type of talent we are bringing in.

Do you honestly think we can be a consistent tourney team and top 25 team bringing in classes that are outside the top 25 recruiting rankings and middle of the pack in the SEC?
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CCM hasn't proven to me that he is accomplished enough as a head coach to win with marginal talent yet.

However, I think Austin and Cofer are better than marginal talents (I have a hard time believing they aren't among the 100 best HS seniirs in the country). Turman fills a definite roll and need as a rebounder and defender, and Cornish is a wildcard.

Butler, VCU, and Wichita St are competitive year in and year out without top-25 classes. So, yes, I think it can be done with the right coach in place. Not so sure Martin is that kind of coach. We shall see.

I think you underestimate how good Austin and Cofer are though. They aren't marginal players on the surface. They may not ever further develop, and flame out against better competition in college, but right now, those two kids are ballplayers, and IMO, are underrated.
 
#193
#193
volbeast33 said:
Ok instead of under the radar......lower rated guys....is that better?
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Sure. Ratings are just a services opinion. To me, a better evaluation is, "what do other high major coaches think about a player?" If a football player is a 3 star outside the top 250 but has offers from Florida, Bama, A&M, Georgia and Tenn then I think he is a pretty good player regardless of rating. Same for Allen. Two programs from the final four last year think he is worthy of an offer. That's good enough for me.

You go by ratings, I go by offers. Nothing wrong either way. It's your opinion and you are entitled to it. :hi:
 
#194
#194
CAVol said:
Sure. Ratings are just a services opinion. To me, a better evaluation is, "what do other high major coaches think about a player?" If a football player is a 3 star outside the top 250 but has offers from Florida, Bama, A&M, Georgia and Tenn then I think he is a pretty good player regardless of rating. Same for Allen. Two programs from the final four last year think he is worthy of an offer. That's good enough for me.
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This
 
#195
#195
This class is not that great. And I have been one of Martin's biggest supporters. But I can't lie and act like this class is great. It's average. The players could play above their ratings and surprise people , or they could just be average. Neither one would surprise me. We still haven't recruited a legit athletic big with length. People acting like this class is a sure fire great or even good class are wrong. Last years class was way better. We really need Hubbs and DT to step up next year.
 
#196
#196
volbeast33 said:
I didnt say it was the end all of recruiting and yes players can definitely be successful outside the top 100. The rankings are a fairly good indicator of the type of talent we are bringing in.

Do you honestly think we can be a consistent tourney team and top 25 team bringing in classes that are outside the top 25 recruiting rankings and middle of the pack in the SEC?
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I think most should agree with your premise. And with a coach that has proven he can take a team to the dance, their shouldn't be a reason in the world not to have a top 25 recruiting class. Unfortunately UT is still waiting to add the proven coach to the sales pitch. But..

Soon....

Hopefully
 
#197
#197
k-town_king said:
This class is not that great. And I have been one of Martin's biggest supporters. But I can't lie and act like this class is great. It's average. The players could play above their ratings and surprise people , or they could just be average. Neither one would surprise me. We still haven't recruited a legit athletic big with length. People acting like this class is a sure fire great or even good class are wrong. Last years class was way better. We really need Hubbs and DT to step up next year.
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Cofer isn't an athletic big with length??
 
#198
#198
k-town_king said:
This class is not that great. And I have been one of Martin's biggest supporters. But I can't lie and act like this class is great. It's average. The players could play above their ratings and surprise people , or they could just be average. Neither one would surprise me. We still haven't recruited a legit athletic big with length. People acting like this class is a sure fire great or even good class are wrong. Last years class was way better. We really need Hubbs and DT to step up next year.
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Sounds like you just described Phil Cofer to me.

dangit CA you beat me to it :)
 
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#199
#199
k-town_king said:
This class is not that great. And I have been one of Martin's biggest supporters. But I can't lie and act like this class is great. It's average. The players could play above their ratings and surprise people , or they could just be average. Neither one would surprise me. We still haven't recruited a legit athletic big with length. People acting like this class is a sure fire great or even good class are wrong. Last years class was way better. We really need Hubbs and DT to step up next year.
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I think the 2013 class has a chance to be better on the front end (Hubbs and Thompson), but this 2014 class a chance to more complete and balanced. A more true PG, a questionable SG, a bouncy, athletic PF, and a true, rebounding defensive presence at C.

Will they all develop and transition to high-major college basketball? That remains to be seen.
 
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