'09 TN DL Daniel Hood (merged)

#501
#501
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Just wondering, how many of you have ever made friends with a gang member or anyone of that caliber and been his age?? Further more, how many of you have ever been told that if you do or say anything you would get your ass kicked or killed?? What he witnessed was just disgusting and he could have tried to do something about it yes, but have you ever been a scared kid his age hanging out with the wrong crowd?? I don't think most of you have and honestly I don't think that most of you know what is going on in his head or what he has been through. No one here can say that if they were in the same situation that they would have done anything different. The reason I know that is because no one on this board has been in that situation. I can also see that most of the posters in here that would see him and recognize him would rather spit in his face than encourage him to always do the right thing in light of what has happened in his life. So would you condemn the kid to a life of possible non-positive influences or would you want him to have the most positive influences around him possible to remind him that he can do better??
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i think it's over simplifiying to simply say "you've never been in his shoes or shoes like his so you can't have a contrary opinion". Likewise, it's over simplification, to a certain extent, to just write him off as well due to the one incident.

kind of like i've been saying, i think this has more to do with the stigma something like this has. didn't say it was right. but it is something that exists, hence this discussion.

that said, i don't think it's over zealous on my part to look at this situation and not want this kid representing my university. Equally, i don't think that should mean he should NEVER get a shot anywhere else.. perhaps it's simply that one of the consequences of that act is that he won't play for the big school....

i think the exposure of playing at a big school in the SEC might be more than most HC's want to bear, which is why i could see him playing at a smaller D1 school or 1-aa school, that can accomodate him, still surround him with the opportunities and positive influence, but w/out the "noise" created at big schools like TN.

you've already seen what this one thread has done today, and how devisive people are on their opininos....i can certainly understand not wanting that to be a continued part of his career at your school, from a HC's or Adiministration's point of view.

and at some point, you'd have to think that's what this kid would want too.
 
#502
#502
cd12 said:
I can see the victim's rights groups flocking to Neyland....
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Whats sad is you have to have victims rights groups to protect the victims. Society, especially media, has scewed public opinion to view criminals and perps as the "victim". They were born poor, no father figure, inner city kid, etc. etc. No one wants to accept responsibility for their actions. Its always someone else's fault.
 
#503
#503
kidbourbon said:
Please point to the page in the opinion that shows where the judge was presented with facts related to this kid's level of remorse. Look real hard. Keep looking.

Oh, you can't find it either? Weird. I guess that was just the judge's opinion, then. That is crazy, because you said that judges come to conclusions based on facts presented to them, and you're obviously really smart and know a lot about criminal law.
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Kid,

You're argument is invalid. You're asking VolMan to search for something which isn't there, and then using its absence to substantiate your argument....which is nonsensical.

In fact, it is the very absence of this information which provided a means to substantiate the judge's comments in the first place.

Lastly, your argument is fatally flawed by the fact that the counsel for defense also disagrees with your position, as they did not seek to challenge either the judge's findings nor the language which he invoked to describe it.

Simply, while you might know something of the criminal justice system (that and $.55 will get you a cup of coffee), you surely don't propose to know more about the specifics of this case - or of the ensuing verdict of the judge - than did the defendants actual counsel, do you?

We can agree to disagree, I suppose, as this will be the last I have to say about it.
 
#505
#505
tm3 said:
point of legal order: what was the father's culpability?

crime occurred in his house

he was home at the time

i've heard of parents getting in hot water for being home when minors consumed alcohol on the premises.

????
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Some states have enacted parental liability statutes. I personally think such statutes are BS and constitutionally suspect. There is a CA case on a parental liability statute. Not sure if TN has such a statute on the books.

The alcohol example is true if the parents knew about it or encouraged it.
 
#507
#507
jakez4ut said:
me neither. I thnk that when it comes down to it, the kid will play college ball somewhere, but one of hte consequences of his actions may be that he wont' get the opportunity to play at an SEC school....maybe he has to go to an MTSU or ULL or something like that. it's a distinct posibility that most SEC coaches won't want the potential negative response or the risk of having the kid on campus....or they may not, who knows....but i could see him still playing somewhere else where the exposre won't be so much...

make sense?
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Absolutely. You wouldn't think he would want the spotlight that would come with playing at UT.

If he wants to play at UT, well, it's his right to apply to the University and walk-on if accepted....

Which brings up an interesting point. Would the school admit him on his own merits and history?

Wow...bout went off on a rant as a father and a skeptic of our justice system. I'll hang up and listen now.
 
#508
#508
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Just wondering, how many of you have ever made friends with a gang member or anyone of that caliber and been his age?? Further more, how many of you have ever been told that if you do or say anything you would get your ass kicked or killed?? What he witnessed was just disgusting and he could have tried to do something about it yes, but have you ever been a scared kid his age hanging out with the wrong crowd?? I don't think most of you have and honestly I don't think that most of you know what is going on in his head or what he has been through. No one here can say that if they were in the same situation that they would have done anything different. The reason I know that is because no one on this board has been in that situation. I can also see that most of the posters in here that would see him and recognize him would rather spit in his face than encourage him to always do the right thing in light of what has happened in his life. So would you condemn the kid to a life of possible non-positive influences or would you want him to have the most positive influences around him possible to remind him that he can do better??
Click to expand...

How do we even know this is true? Also, as far as being killed, that's what the son of a b**** that messes with my family is going to have to do if I was to witness that.

Also, what if Hood was signing with Bama or UF? I wonder what people would be saying about Saban and Meyer.
 
#509
#509
volmanbill said:
Absolutely. You wouldn't think he would want the spotlight that would come with playing at UT.

If he wants to play at UT, well, it's his right to apply to the University and walk-on if accepted....

Which brings up an interesting point. Would the school admit him on his own merits and history?

Wow...bout went off on a rant as a father and a skeptic of our justice system. I'll hang up and listen now.
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I don't think they could prevent him from coming on his own at all.
 
#510
#510
jakez4ut said:
i think it's over simplifiying to simply say "you've never been in his shoes or shoes like his so you can't have a contrary opinion". Likewise, it's over simplification, to a certain extent, to just write him off as well due to the one incident.

kind of like i've been saying, i think this has more to do with the stigma something like this has. didn't say it was right. but it is something that exists, hence this discussion.

that said, i don't think it's over zealous on my part to look at this situation and not want this kid representing my university. Equally, i don't think that should mean he should NEVER get a shot anywhere else.. perhaps it's simply that one of the consequences of that act is that he won't play for the big school....

i think the exposure of playing at a big school in the SEC might be more than most HC's want to bear, which is why i could see him playing at a smaller D1 school or 1-aa school, that can accomodate him, still surround him with the opportunities and positive influence, but w/out the "noise" created at big schools like TN.

you've already seen what this one thread has done today, and how devisive people are on their opininos....i can certainly understand not wanting that to be a continued part of his career at your school, from a HC's or Adiministration's point of view.

and at some point, you'd have to think that's what this kid would want too.
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Well said, as usual, Jake.

I believe that most of us hope the kid gets things straightened out and has a productive life. The problem is, we don't know if he's straightened out... and that's a lot to risk with him representing our University on the big stage. He can put himself back together and get things right without all the attention and pressure.
 
#512
#512
chavisut said:
How do we even know this is true? Also, as far as being killed, that's what the son of a b**** that messes with my family is going to have to do if I was to witness that.

Also, what if Hood was signing with Bama or UF? I wonder what people would be saying about Saban and Meyer.
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We don't. His post was full of erroneous assumptions.

If he was going to another SEC opponent, everyone here except the clergy (and some of them), would be blasting him. Oh, and other sex offenders.
 
#513
#513
jakez4ut said:
I don't think they could prevent him from coming on his own at all.
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Really? The University never turns an applicant down?

I would hope some sort of character requirements were part of the process. I mean, even apartment communities have standards.

Either way, if he qualifies and is accepted....fine.
 
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#514
#514
Tenacious D said:
Kid,

You're argument is invalid. You're asking VolMan to search for something which isn't there, and then using its absence to substantiate your argument....which is nonsensical.

In fact, it is the very absence of this information which provided a means to substantiate the judge's comments in the first place.

Lastly, your argument is fatally flawed by the fact that the counsel for defense also disagrees with your position, as they did not seek to challenge either the judge's findings nor the language which he invoked to describe it.

Simply, while you might know something of the criminal justice system (that and $.55 will get you a cup of coffee), you surely don't propose to know more about the specifics of this case - or of the ensuing verdict of the judge - than did the defendants actual counsel, do you?

We can agree to disagree, I suppose, as this will be the last I have to say about it.
Click to expand...

Nothing that I wrote qualifies as an "argument", so it would be a stretch to characterize it as either invalid or fatally flawed.

Dude posted something to the effect "judges make decisions based on the facts presented to them." My response to that is essentially, yes during the determination of innoncence or guilt, but not during sentencing. And since I think we can all agree that his level of remose was not an element of the crime, the Judge was considering the defendant's level of remorse in the sentencing phase.

Judges have discretion during sentencing and there is nothing stopping them from tweaking a sentence in one direction or the other based on their opinion of the defendant. And, here, I think it is just as likely that the judge based the remorse statement on his own personal observation than on 80 pages of psychological evaluations. In fact, I think the former is more likely.

I am also not an expert at criminal law, so this will be my final word.
 
#515
#515
chavisut said:
How do we even know this is true? Also, as far as being killed, that's what the son of a b**** that messes with my family is going to have to do if I was to witness that.

Also, what if Hood was signing with Bama or UF? I wonder what people would be saying about Saban and Meyer.
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Exactly... the hounds would be howling. So, in the most PC manner I can muster I would just leave this whole deal with... I don't want him representing our University.
 
#517
#517
volmanbill said:
Really? The University never turns an applicant down?

I would hope some sort of character requirements were part of the process. I mean, even apartment communities have standards.

Either way, if he qualifies and is accepted....great.
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I would think if he had served his time and met entry requirements he would be accepted, and I don't think he should be forever kept from being a productive member of society.

I personally have a problem with giving him a scholarship because of his character issues, but my personal opinion doesn't do anything but affect my level of respect for the coaching staff.

I professionally don't want him on the team because of the possible damage to UT's image and recruiting ability for the future. Also, I question what kind of impact this would have on the current members of the team and have to think it would be a negative one. I just have trouble believing the players accept the coaches decrees on behavior and discipline if the coaches give this guy a scholarship. Thus, I think the negatives far outweigh any positives he brings.

That said, I'm done commenting on this thread until someone verifies that he really will sign with UT.
 
#518
#518
volmanbill said:
Really? The University never turns an applicant down?

I would hope some sort of character requirements were part of the process. I mean, even apartment communities have standards.

Either way, if he qualifies and is accepted....fine.
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they let me in.:)
 
#519
#519
My family is very religious and my mother is still a practicing priest, so I believe in retribution and second chances but I can't think that an experience like this wouldn't have a long term and lasting effect on a person. Regardless of his guilt in the matter, I think something like this issue is so touchy that it should be left alone and I think it possibly sets a negative precedent that Tennessee football under CLK will take any player with talent, no matter what the particulars about their character are. Honestly, that's not the type of team I want to be a fan of or root for. I want all of our players to be stand out young men like Chris Martin, EB, or Inky Johnson.
 
#520
#520
i see a big difference between

1) allowing him to attend the university and get a degree so that he can be a productive member of society

and

2) giving (paying) him a scholarship and having him be a representative of the university's football program

and thanks for answering my legal question
 
#521
#521
No way he should be allowed on the team, if Kiffin lets go of DJ Hunter and brings this kid in, it would be a very big first mistake for Kiffin in my eyes, yes what DJ Hunter did was idiotic and immature, but what Hood did is just ridiculous and sick and far worse than what Hunter did. If we want to install more discipline why should we bring in ANY former criminals? Pretty much every kid gets in trouble with the law at least once in high school and that is understandable, but there is a FINE line between smoking weed, drinking, etc. and kidnapping and basically raping your own cousin. What Kiffin did with Hunter was definantly the right thing to do and if he wants to continue that trend then there is no way Hood should be allowed on the team.

I was also thinking maybe Kiffin doesnt want him, thats why he hasnt been recruiting him. If Hood's parents spoke with Mike Hamilton about Daniel coming to UT and Hamilton believes Hood has changed Hamilton would tell Kiffin that he must honor Hood's scholarship. I think it might actually be Hamilton's decision.
 
#522
#522
GrindHARD said:
No way he should be allowed on the team, if Kiffin lets go of DJ Hunter and brings this kid in, it would be a very big first mistake for Kiffin in my eyes, yes what DJ Hunter did was idiotic and immature, but what Hood did is just ridiculous and sick and far worse than what Hunter did. If we want to install more discipline why should we bring in ANY former criminals? Pretty much every kid gets in trouble with the law at least once in high school and that is understandable, but there is a FINE line between smoking weed, drinking, etc. and kidnapping and basically raping your own cousin. What Kiffin did with Hunter was definantly the right thing to do and if he wants to continue that trend then there is no way Hood should be allowed on the team.

I was also thinking maybe Kiffin doesnt want him, thats why he hasnt been recruiting him. If Hood's parents spoke with Mike Hamilton about Daniel coming to UT and Hamilton believes Hood has changed Hamilton would tell Kiffin that he must honor Hood's scholarship. I think it might actually be Hamilton's decision.
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It would send VERY mixed signals...to say the least
 
#523
#523
What if the program allowed him to walk on, an opportunity to work, show he has matured, show how he handles people challenging him, to show what kind of young man he is today? Then maybe a scholarship later.
 
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