11 wins vacated

#51
#51
gunner said:
JP, I always respect your opinion and I agree in a perfect world she did the right thing, but my problems begin with the NCAA’s inability and desire to police college football recruiting. Let them investigate, and don’t tell them what they want to hear and then all they have is a bunch of hearsay and unsubstantiated allegations with nothing more. They will go away and forget about it. The only real power the NCAA has is when you give them something on a silver platter which she did and otherwise they are largely useless to conduct their own investigation.

I keep asking myself is this how Alabama, Georgia, LSU or anyone else that desires to win a championship would have handled this problem and I keep coming back to the same answer which is “HELL NO”.

No one can expect a coach to compete for Championships at UT and then tie their hands in recruiting top prospects against our competition. If you want to win in College Football then you must get the best players to compete and that has always meant paying them.

I’m not convinced that it was so noble on her part, she was appointed by Haslam and they desperately wanted to get Fulmer out as AD. This is more of the same infighting that has domed UT Football for decades.

Fulmer did the right thing by stepping down and ceding his power to a new AD. Plowman is just damn lucky that UTAD found and excellent Football coach in JH. It’s a real shame that this was exposed outside of UT and most importantly it continues to hamper JH’s ability to recruit top players by the recruiting restrictions placed upon him because of the NCAA sanctions.

In the world of college football recruiting if you ain’t cheating then you ain’t trying.
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Just plain silly. Are people out there cheating? I’m sure they are. Do I believe most top tier programs do everything they can to follow rules and stay out of trouble? I sure do. It’s not worth a programs image and future just to try and land a recruit with a bag of money or a fancy dinner. I’d say your assumption that every program out there is cheating is probably false.
 
#55
#55
wokawoka55 said:
I’m just ready to get past it now and focus on the here and now. Yes it’s too bad to now have those recorded as losses but we know we won them. We already had the enjoyment of the wins. That’s enough for me. This is just entertainment.
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Yeah, can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. We saw the wins, they know they lost. The ding on the record stinks, but the score doesn't change.
 
#56
#56
EZE said:
I completely disagree OP. Our administration was handed a sh!t sandwich. No matter what they did…it wasn’t going to taste good.

I think it was handled as well as possible. In fact, better than could be expected under the circumstances.

11 wins from two mediocre seasons…while protecting the future? Great job if you ask me.
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It stinks, but if you would have told me as Pruitt was leaving that we would be at 11 wins only 30 months later, with the best offensive mind in the nation at the helm, with the number one QB recruit in the land on our roster and wins over three of the last four NCs under our belt, I would have taken it without blinking. Time to be thankful IMHO
 
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#57
#57
gunner said:
JP, I always respect your opinion and I agree in a perfect world she did the right thing, but my problems begin with the NCAA’s inability and desire to police college football recruiting. Let them investigate, and don’t tell them what they want to hear and then all they have is a bunch of hearsay and unsubstantiated allegations with nothing more. They will go away and forget about it. The only real power the NCAA has is when you give them something on a silver platter which she did and otherwise they are largely useless to conduct their own investigation.

I keep asking myself is this how Alabama, Georgia, LSU or anyone else that desires to win a championship would have handled this problem and I keep coming back to the same answer which is “HELL NO”.

No one can expect a coach to compete for Championships at UT and then tie their hands in recruiting top prospects against our competition. If you want to win in College Football then you must get the best players to compete and that has always meant paying them.

I’m not convinced that it was so noble on her part, she was appointed by Haslam and they desperately wanted to get Fulmer out as AD. This is more of the same infighting that has domed UT Football for decades.

Fulmer did the right thing by stepping down and ceding his power to a new AD. Plowman is just damn lucky that UTAD found and excellent Football coach in JH. It’s a real shame that this was exposed outside of UT and most importantly it continues to hamper JH’s ability to recruit top players by the recruiting restrictions placed upon him because of the NCAA sanctions.

In the world of college football recruiting if you ain’t cheating then you ain’t trying.
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A few comments:

1. Fulmer was given the choice of resigning with a partial buy out or being fired with cause. Thankfully, he took the less messy option...

2. Fulmer failed miserably in all his aspects as AD. He ignored the obvious and well-known character concerns with Pruitt, he extended him after poor on field results, created a culture where cheating ran rampant, and fell behind rivals in revenue. UGA, Bama, LSU had the financial strength to tell NCAA to F off. We didn't, largely because of Fulmer'a actions....
 
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#58
#58
EastTNVol6240 said:
Just plain silly. Are people out there cheating? I’m sure they are. Do I believe most top tier programs do everything they can to follow rules and stay out of trouble? I sure do. It’s not worth a programs image and future just to try and land a recruit with a bag of money or a fancy dinner. I’d say your assumption that every program out there is cheating is probably false.
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Any top tier organization operates as close to the line as possible. Be that NCAA football, basketball, NFL, NBA, Microsoft, whatever. That is reality. The really good ones operate close to the line and rarely cross it but trust me if you don't toe that line staying at the top is very hard if not impossible. The problem is the world gets more and more polarised every day and people forget that the world turns in shades of grey not black and white. I don't like it, you shouldn't either but it's how the world operates. Ignoring reality does not change anything and in fact makes things worse.
 
#59
#59
BigOrangeMojo said:
A few comments:

1. Fulmer was given the choice of resigning with a partial buy out or being fired with cause.
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I don't believe this for a minute, Mojo.

I think it was actually his idea to resign. Reluctantly, for sure. With a sense of relief from Donde Plowman, likely. But I think it was his idea, his gesture. A sense of responsibility for leading the Vols down the wrong path by hiring exactly the wrong coach.

Again, people are more complex than we tend to give them credit for. They're never 100% good or 100% evil. Usually more like 60%/40%. The best of us can hope our 60% is on the positive side.

Go Vols!
 
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#60
#60
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't believe this for a minute, Mojo.

I think it was actually his idea to resign. Reluctantly, for sure. With a sense of relief from Donde Plowman, likely. But I think it was his idea, his gesture. A sense of responsibility for leading the Vols down the wrong path by hiring exactly the wrong coach.

Again, people are more complex than we tend to give them credit for. They're never 100% good or 100% evil. Usually more like 60%/40%. The best of us can hope our 60% is on the positive side.

Go Vols!
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He absolutely was given a choice. Just look at the partial buyout he took. If he wanted to resign, he would have taken no money.

The school was well within their right to fire him for cause but the partial buyout and respectful exit was to ensure cooperation.

Fulmer wasn't evil, he was just way in over his head as AD...
 
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#61
#61
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't believe this for a minute, Mojo.

I think it was actually his idea to resign. Reluctantly, for sure. With a sense of relief from Donde Plowman, likely. But I think it was his idea, his gesture. A sense of responsibility for leading the Vols down the wrong path by hiring exactly the wrong coach.

Again, people are more complex than we tend to give them credit for. They're never 100% good or 100% evil. Usually more like 60%/40%. The best of us can hope our 60% is on the positive side.

Go Vols!
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Except that up until the end, Fulmer seemed totally unable to admit that he had hired the wrong coach. It sounds like he kept making excuse after excuse for the poor on field results
 
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#63
#63
Those were awful years. Look at it this way—Pruitt went completely defeated as a coach. You gotta love that.

Edit: sorry. He was 5-19. Still awful and deserving.
 
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#65
#65
I don’t care about vacating wins, however shouldn’t the losses also be scrubbed? If someone says no, why not????
I wonder if there is any legal precedent on that?

Think about it, when a team gives up the wins, does the opponent’s record get adjusted? What about our losses or their wins???? 🤔
 
#66
#66
I guess we should be glad, at this point, that Pruitt was so bad, we only have to give up 11 wins for hie tenure. We’ll be fine, he will forever be remembered as the west hire in UT history… maybe DD might have something to say.
 
#67
#67
Once someone reports an infraction to you as chancellor you either become part of the cover up or part of the house cleaning..The infractions were so widespread, and known by so many folks, it was only a matter of time before it surfaced. There is not a broom or rug large enough to keep sweeping this mess under.
 
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#68
#68
gunner said:


UT is forced to vacated 11 wins as part of their self initiated reporting of rules violation to the NCAA. This is truly unfortunate and angers me beyond words!

“That includes wins over UTC, Mississippi State, South Carolina, UAB, Kentucky, Missouri, Vanderbilt and Indiana in 2019, and wins over South Carolina, Missouri and Vanderbilt in 2020.”

Am I the only one that is pissed about vacating these wins?

This certainly wasn’t necessary, UT should have used the millions that they paid in attorney’s fee to buy out Fulmer, Pruitt. and staff. Then hired a new AD and HC. They have tarnished the reputation, image and brand for no reason.

You can bet the farm that had Pruitt been winning like JH has done in his first few seasons then the violations are ignored, covered up or minimized by Plowman and never reported fully to the NCAA and a law firm isn’t hired to investigate. All self inflicted wounds by Plowman.

Plowman is extremely fortunate that they struck gold with JH; otherwise, she’s long gone at UT.

I’m ecstatic that UT has found an experienced AD who hired an excellent coach and they have the Vols heading in the right direction, but all these self inflicted wounds aren’t necessary, and handled differently UT doesn’t vacate these wins, just my thoughts.
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So we get to wipe out of history our worst season ever? Awesome
 
#70
#70
burntorangeVOLffle said:
No. They keep their L.

Vacated wins is the dumbest thing they ever came up with. Unless they strip a conference or national title but even then it’s not like people forget who won a game. Does anyone really say USC didn’t win a NC in 2003 because Reggie Bush’s parents had their rent paid? No.

Besides, when the NCAA finally folds every team that has ever vacated wins will add them right back to the record books. Most schools still include them in their programs and media guides anyway. It’s only on the NCAA records.
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Do we have to give back the Gator Bowl trophy? LOL. All kidding aside that game was fun to watch and I don't like to see it in the "did not win column".
 
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#72
#72
gunner said:


UT is forced to vacated 11 wins as part of their self initiated reporting of rules violation to the NCAA. This is truly unfortunate and angers me beyond words!

“That includes wins over UTC, Mississippi State, South Carolina, UAB, Kentucky, Missouri, Vanderbilt and Indiana in 2019, and wins over South Carolina, Missouri and Vanderbilt in 2020.”

Am I the only one that is pissed about vacating these wins?

This certainly wasn’t necessary, UT should have used the millions that they paid in attorney’s fee to buy out Fulmer, Pruitt. and staff. Then hired a new AD and HC. They have tarnished the reputation, image and brand for no reason.

You can bet the farm that had Pruitt been winning like JH has done in his first few seasons then the violations are ignored, covered up or minimized by Plowman and never reported fully to the NCAA and a law firm isn’t hired to investigate. All self inflicted wounds by Plowman.

Plowman is extremely fortunate that they struck gold with JH; otherwise, she’s long gone at UT.

I’m ecstatic that UT has found an experienced AD who hired an excellent coach and they have the Vols heading in the right direction, but all these self inflicted wounds aren’t necessary, and handled differently UT doesn’t vacate these wins, just my thoughts.
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It's hard to believe that Fulmer hired a Alabama plant that ruined the program. On 2nd thought...
 
#73
#73
gunner said:


UT is forced to vacated 11 wins as part of their self initiated reporting of rules violation to the NCAA. This is truly unfortunate and angers me beyond words!

“You can bet the farm that had Pruitt been winning like JH has done in his first few seasons then the violations are ignored, covered up or minimized by Plowman and never reported fully to the NCAA and a law firm isn’t hired to investigate. All self inflicted wounds by Plowman.

Plowman is extremely fortunate that they struck gold with JH; otherwise, she’s long gone at UT.

.
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Disagree entirely. She did absolutely the right thing. One text, one tweet, one whatever and this thing would have blown up in 1990s Bama fashion.

The vacating of wins is like a self licking ice cream cone. It doesn't really accomplish anything. If you look at records of other schools who had to vacate wins you will find very few sites that take away the records. . . except the NCAA and they are noted with an asterisk.

Like Josh Pate said. . "Now, the NCAA wants you to imagine that you did not see those games" and he is right. Total non sequitur.
 
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