'15 CT TE Chris Clark

#126
#126
doogie said:
Had an article naming top 5 TEs in nation in USA Today High School Sports yesterday. Chris Clark, Jackson Harris, and Hale Hentges were among those top 5.
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Trying to give these talented young men a little support. Trashing them doesn't seem like a good way to make them want to become a vol. If any of them read these remarks, I don't think they'll be too impressed. That's just my opinion. I don't mean to step on any toes but I would think the coaches are working hard to recruit some of these kids and trashing them on VN isn't the best way to help them.
 
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#127
#127
doogie said:
Trying to give these talented young men a little support. Trashing them doesn't seem like a good way to make them want to become a vol. If any of them read these remarks, I don't think they'll be too impressed. That's just my opinion. I don't mean to step on any toes but I would think the coaches are working hard to recruit some of these kids and trashing them on VN isn't the best way to help them.
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You must be new here.
 
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#130
#130
Avon (Conn.) Old Farms tight end*Chris Clark*recently visited Michigan and*Ohio State, and fresh off a*Michigan State*offer last Monday, the four-star said he has begun informing coaches that he is not interested in their program. Clark said he will visit Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State in June,*Tennessee*and*Georgia*later in the summer, with the hopes of reaching a decision “later in the summer.”

- scout
 
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#135
#135
mreynoldsdvm said:
IMO, every prospect that is ranked number one at their position should be a five star, even kickers.
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I agree with this. Kicker, Punter, special teams in general can win/lose a ballgame. If a kid is the best of the best at his position, a 5 star rating should be a given.
 
#136
#136
LebanonVolunteer said:
I agree with this. Kicker, Punter, special teams in general can win/lose a ballgame. If a kid is the best of the best at his position, a 5 star rating should be a given.
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It seems like the * rating is independent of rank, for better or worse. * ratings are calculated based on measureables, right? Then rankings are based on the ratings (like 5.8/4*). So, rankings are derived based on ratings, not vice versa.

Just my logic, may not be real life...
 
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#139
#139
LebanonVolunteer said:
I agree with this. Kicker, Punter, special teams in general can win/lose a ballgame. If a kid is the best of the best at his position, a 5 star rating should be a given.
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Wrong. A star system should reflect where a player ranks overall among all prospects, so 5-star ratings should be reserved for the top 30 or so overall players in the country (i.e., prospects with the talent to be future 1st round NFL draft picks).

Kickers, punters, long snappers, and interior offensive lineman shouldn't get a 5-star rating just because they're the best at their position. No team is going to prioritize signing the nation's top punter over a 4-star QB, LT, or DE. 5-star ratings should be reserved for truly transcendant talent at otherwise unimportant and expendable positions (e.g., a kicker prospect like Sabastian Janikowski, or a guard prospect like Larry Allen).
 
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#140
#140
AboveAllNations said:
Wrong. A star system should reflect where a player ranks overall among all prospects, so 5-star ratings should be reserved for the top 30 or so overall players in the country (i.e., prospects with the talent to be future 1st round NFL draft picks).

Kickers, punters, long snappers, and interior offensive lineman shouldn't get a 5-star rating just because they're the best at their position. No team is going to prioritize signing the nation's top punter over a 4-star QB, LT, or DE. 5-star ratings should be reserved for truly transcendant talent at otherwise unimportant and expendable positions (e.g., a kicker prospect like Sabastian Janikowski, or a guard prospect like Larry Allen).
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I'd venture to guess there have been ALOT of situations where signing a top 5 kicker or punter could mean more to a coach than a QB, RB, or whatever. I would also guess that very few IF ANY college coaches view their kickers, punters, long snappers, and others as "unimportant and expendable". That would be a recipe for a lot of losing.
 
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#141
#141
AboveAllNations said:
Wrong. A star system should reflect where a player ranks overall among all prospects, so 5-star ratings should be reserved for the top 30 or so overall players in the country (i.e., prospects with the talent to be future 1st round NFL draft picks).

Kickers, punters, long snappers, and interior offensive lineman shouldn't get a 5-star rating just because they're the best at their position. No team is going to prioritize signing the nation's top punter over a 4-star QB, LT, or DE. 5-star ratings should be reserved for truly transcendant talent at otherwise unimportant and expendable positions (e.g., a kicker prospect like Sabastian Janikowski, or a guard prospect like Larry Allen).
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Kickers are unimportant?
 
#143
#143
LebanonVolunteer said:
I'd venture to guess there have been ALOT of situations where signing a top 5 kicker or punter could mean more to a coach than a QB, RB, or whatever. I would also guess that very few IF ANY college coaches view their kickers, punters, long snappers, and others as "unimportant and expendable". That would be a recipe for a lot of losing.
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Agree 100%, LV! You and I don't agree often, but we see eye to eye on this. If a prospect is good enough to be ranked number one at their position, then they are considered to most likely be able to contribute immediately. That is the definition of a five star. Throw all of this stupid measurable stuff out the window. Does size and speed really make a hill of beans for a kicker? Yes, it can be very important for the skill position players and LBs, but not kickers. If you are relying on your kicker to have 4.5 speed, in order to tackle the kick returner, then you are in serious trouble.
 
#144
#144
LebanonVolunteer said:
I'd venture to guess there have been ALOT of situations where signing a top 5 kicker or punter could mean more to a coach than a QB, RB, or whatever. I would also guess that very few IF ANY college coaches view their kickers, punters, long snappers, and others as "unimportant and expendable". That would be a recipe for a lot of losing.
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Would you ever take a #1 kicker / punter over top-10 talent at a more valuable position? Take this year's recruiting class as an example. Among the ESPN 300, only the top 15 prospects earned a 5-star rating, while everybody else was a 4-star.

Assume you were in Butch Jones' shoes. If you could sign the top kicker in the country and lose one of the following 4-star players from the class:

- Josh Malone (#43)
- Todd Kelly Jr. (#59)
- Jalen Hurd (#70)
- Dillon Bates (#105)

Would you do it? Or would you rather keep all of those 4-stars listed above and take a walk-on to be your kicker? The answer should be obvious.

Special teamers and interior lineman aren't unimportant, but they are immensely less valuable compared to other positions. Even the very best at those positions aren't worth passing up top-10 talent at more important positions like QB, WR, LT, DE, and CB. There's a reason why there's only been 1 kicker or punter drafted in the first round of the NFL draft in 30 years.
 
#145
#145
mreynoldsdvm said:
Agree 100%, LV! You and I don't agree often, but we see eye to eye on this. If a prospect is good enough to be ranked number one at their position, then they are considered to most likely be able to contribute immediately. That is the definition of a five star. Throw all of this stupid measurable stuff out the window. Does size and speed really make a hill of beans for a kicker? Yes, it can be very important for the skill position players and LBs, but not kickers. If you are relying on your kicker to have 4.5 speed, in order to tackle the kick returner, then you are in serious trouble.
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Measurables have nothing to do with it. Kickers are simply far less valuable than other positions. Unless a kicker really is so good that he's worth passing over top-5 talent at other positions, he shouldn't automatically be a 5-star just because he's the best at his position. In terms of recruiting value, being the best kicker in the country is like being the skinniest kid at fat camp.
 
#147
#147
AboveAllNations said:
Measurables have nothing to do with it. Kickers are simply far less valuable than other positions. Unless a kicker really is so good that he's worth passing over top-5 talent at other positions, he shouldn't automatically be a 5-star just because he's the best at his position. In terms of recruiting value, being the best kicker in the country is like being the skinniest kid at fat camp.
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Go and poll 100 NCAA D1 coaches and ask them if kickers are far less valuable than other positions...I bet 90+% of them, and probably almost all of them, would disagree with you. Sorry, but stupid post is just.....stupid!
 
#149
#149
mreynoldsdvm said:
Go and poll 100 NCAA D1 coaches and ask them if kickers are far less valuable than other positions...I bet 90+% of them, and probably almost all of them, would disagree with you. Sorry, but stupid post is just.....stupid!
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If kickers are so important, why are they consistenly picked after every other position in each year's NFL draft? Why are kickers and punters by far the lowest-paid positions in the NFL, with the ten highest-paid kickers and punters making roughly half of the ten highest-paid centers and guards?

Kickers may seem important in the sense that their mistakes are highly visible, but there isn't really a significant difference between the very best and worst kickers in the NFL. The talent discrepancy among kickers is a little larger in Division 1 football, but D-1 teams can still find servicable walk on kickers or punters on any intramural soccer field. Accurate placekickers are the opposite of franchise QBs, bookend LTs, or shutdown corners in the sense that they come a dime a dozen.

So, I repeat my question. If you had to choose between giving a scholarship to the top kicking prospect in the nation or getting a walk-on kicker to go with a top-100 4-star player like Josh Malone, Jalen Hurd or Todd Kelly Jr., what would you choose? If you accept the premise that 5-star ratings should only be reserved for the top 15-30 overall prospects for that rating to have any meaning, then no kicker should ever be a 5-star prospect - especially not just because he happens to be the best at his position.
 
#150
#150
AboveAllNations said:
If kickers are so important, why are they consistenly picked after every other position in each year's NFL draft? Why are kickers and punters by far the lowest-paid positions in the NFL, with the ten highest-paid kickers and punters making roughly half of the ten highest-paid centers and guards?

Kickers may seem important in the sense that their mistakes are highly visible, but there isn't really a significant difference between the very best and worst kickers in the NFL. The talent discrepancy among kickers is a little larger in Division 1 football, but D-1 teams can still find servicable walk on kickers or punters on any intramural soccer field. Accurate placekickers are the opposite of franchise QBs, bookend LTs, or shutdown corners in the sense that they come a dime a dozen.

So, I repeat my question. If you had to choose between giving a scholarship to the top kicking prospect in the nation or getting a walk-on kicker to go with a top-100 4-star player like Josh Malone, Jalen Hurd or Todd Kelly Jr., what would you choose? If you accept the premise that 5-star ratings should only be reserved for the top 15-30 overall prospects for that rating to have any meaning, then no kicker should ever be a 5-star prospect - especially not just because he happens to be the best at his position.
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Never mind. You are missing my point that I was trying to make with the original post about every recruit that is number one at their position should be a five star. If a prospect is ranked number one at their position, then the services are saying they can most likely contribute early at a program. That is the definition of a five star.
 
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