'15 MI RB Michael Weber

#252
#252
True North Vol said:
If this were true,strictly speaking, we wouldn't be able to explain the difference between the quality of CBJ's recruits and CDD's.

Kids ought to commit to a program, not a school or a position coach
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There is a big difference between the quality, because Butch Jones is a far superior recruiter than Dooley.

The kid is still committing to UT, the school/program, which are synonymous, not a coach. If a coach leaves, they need to be happy with the school/program that they chose.
 
#253
#253
True North Vol said:
If this were true,strictly speaking, we wouldn't be able to explain the difference between the quality of CBJ's recruits and CDD's.

Kids ought to commit to a program, not a school or a position coach
Click to expand...

I think I'm going to agree to disagree here; I think who your position coach is matters a lot, kinda like who your boss is. If you develop a relationship with a coach who you are putting your trust in to develop you and get you to the next level and he bails on you, you have a right to reconsider, IMO.

If I was interviewed by someone and was told I would be working for them, and when I signed on the dotted line and showed up for work with a different boss, I might reconsider too.

JMO.
 
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#254
#254
So, how many of you think OSU should release him?


Now, how many thought we should have released our EEs when Kiffin left?
 
#256
#256
Weezer said:
So, how many of you think OSU should release him?


Now, how many thought we should have released our EEs when Kiffin left?
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If they asked about the RB coaches future employment with OSU and were lied to or not told he was considering and NFL offer upon asking this question, he should be released to play anywhere he chooses.

If they didn't ask. IMO, OSU did nothing wrong. Position coaches are always looking to improve their situation.
 
#257
#257
TlM said:
The EEs were already enrolled and headed to class. Not the same thing.
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If they had not attended class, they could have been released, but that option was not given to them. Hamilton came straight out and said they committed to the school, not the coach. If you think back, there was one kid who hadn't reached campus yet, so he ended up going to UNC.

Also, reports circulated suggesting Butch wanted to wait until after NSD to announce Jake's departure, but Tampa leaked news of the hire making it impossible.
 
#259
#259
SDV said:
There is a big difference between the quality, because Butch Jones is a far superior recruiter than Dooley.

The kid is still committing to UT, the school/program, which are synonymous, not a coach. If a coach leaves, they need to be happy with the school/program that they chose.
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The school and the program are not synonymous. Within tolerances, the culture of a school remains the same.

Football programs at a school can change radically, usually as the result of head coaching changes. While it's true many traditional powers try to maintain the continuity of their programs to the point they become the school brand, even the Michigan's and the Nebraska's have made breaks to longstanding approaches.

A program is about a football philosophy, a way of treating people and a set of principles that may or may not align with the university. When it does you have a Neyland or a Hayes who personify the institution. When it doesn't you have situations like Miami under Schnelenberger or USC and Kiffin.

Jones is a great recruiter because he sells his program; family, hard work, positivity and commitment in the classroom. He could lock down recruits even without an OC because they knew it was his program. Position coaches are part of the equation but a limited part.

The less said about Dooley's program the better.

And yet through it all, UT remains UT.
 
#260
#260
TlM said:
The EEs were already enrolled and headed to class. Not the same thing.
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Bingo! This kid was recruited by a position coach, developed a relationship with that position coach and chose a school due to the relationship with that position coach. As soon as he signed, that coach left the school. If that coach or any coaches mislead said kid and they are aware of this, they ought to do the right thing and let him go. On the other hand, if a kid is already enrolled, time passes and the coach decides to leave, then that's just life, get over it and support the school you're already attending. Even still, there are cases where enrolled athletes request transfers after their coaches leave. But that's a different set of circumstances. When you JUST SIGNED YOUR LOI AND YOUR COACH LEAVES, the first and possibly only relationship tying you to that program is immediately destroyed. It's not like this kid has been enrolled and had a chance to develop any other relationship to tie him to that school. Remember, life is not all about football. This kid just chose an educational path for the next four years of his life. OSU should do the right thing and let the kid opt out and go elsewhere if he so chooses. Otherwise, the relationship with the school is tarnished right from the start. He and his family become a cancer. If he chooses to stay after OSU grants him a release, it's because he wants to be there despite any deceit. That allows a positive to come out of a negative and both parties move forward.
 
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#261
#261
True North Vol said:
The school and the program are not synonymous. Within tolerances, the culture of a school remains the same.

Football programs at a school can change radically, usually as the result of head coaching changes. While it's true many traditional powers try to maintain the continuity of their programs to the point they become the school brand, even the Michigan's and the Nebraska's have made breaks to longstanding approaches.

A program is about a football philosophy, a way of treating people and a set of principles that may or may not align with the university. When it does you have a Neyland or a Hayes who personify the institution. When it doesn't you have situations like Miami under Schnelenberger or USC and Kiffin.

Jones is a great recruiter because he sells his program; family, hard work, positivity and commitment in the classroom. He could lock down recruits even without an OC because they knew it was his program. Position coaches are part of the equation but a limited part.

The less said about Dooley's program the better.

And yet through it all, UT remains UT.
Click to expand...

Not trying to argue with you, but we'll just agree to disagree
 
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#262
#262
If Kiffin's EE's were so locked in, why was there such an uproar about Ogre trying to call them to tell them NOT to go to class?
 
#263
#263
SDV said:
Boo freaking hoo kid. That's why you commit to a school not a coach, especially a position coach
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That sounds great and all but you're not being realistic. 80-90% of recruits in any sport pick a school because of their relationship with the coaches. That's the person who is going to prepare them for the NFL, which is their ultimate goal.
 
#264
#264
Weezer said:
If Kiffin's EE's were so locked in, why was there such an uproar about Ogre trying to call them to tell them NOT to go to class?
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I think it was because until they attended their first class, they were not considered an official student at the University of Tennessee. Up until that point, they had only signed financial papers.
 
#265
#265
Weezer said:
If they had not attended class, they could have been released, but that option was not given to them. Hamilton came straight out and said they committed to the school, not the coach. If you think back, there was one kid who hadn't reached campus yet, so he ended up going to UNC.

Also, reports circulated suggesting Butch wanted to wait until after NSD to announce Jake's departure, but Tampa leaked news of the hire making it impossible.
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Never heard of the UNC guy...who was he?
 
#269
#269
VolsnCards5 said:
The guy coming with miller...smith?

He was of the ones we got in trouble for because Lane sent hostesses to his game

I think
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Oh yeah...got thrown off with Willis because he went to UCLA first...then transferred to UNC.
 
#270
#270
butchna said:
Oh yeah...got thrown off with Willis because he went to UCLA first...then transferred to UNC.
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Actually, if I remember correctly, he went to UNC, transferred to UCLA, then transferred back to UNC.
 
#271
#271
OGbabyaviVol said:
I think it was because until they attended their first class, they were not considered an official student at the University of Tennessee. Up until that point, they had only signed financial papers.
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Which was my point. They could have been released from those financial agreements as they had yet to attend a class, and chosen another school, but Hamilton flat out said no, he wouldn't release them. It's not as different from Weber's situation as some want to think.

It all goes back to what SDV said in an earlier post. You commit to the school, not to a coach. Now, I realize kids end up committing to the coach, but that's on them and their parents. They're being irresponsible if they're not actually looking at the school itself to see if they could picture getting their higher education there. Given how quickly coaching staffs turnover, recruits should have this in their head by now, but for whatever reason they don't seem to put weight on the idea. Does it suck for Weber? Absolutely, but that's not on OSU imo. Their coach is a slime ball, a known slime ball, yet he chose to sign a LOI to go there. If his only reasoning was Drayton, he did a piss poor job of evaluating his choices. I just don't think it justifies seeking a release. If he's not happy in a year, he can transfer.
 
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#273
#273
Wow Weber's opinion of CUM and Ohio State changed quickly. It would be wild if he decided to transfer to Tennessee
 
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