15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

#52
#52
JayVols said:
I was simply making the point that the unions have done some good as well.
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I don't think anyone is debating that they clearly had a valuable service to provide at one time. Today, however, they're just another form of legalized ransom collector.
 
#53
#53
droski said:
i see so you think it's fair to compare outsourcing (which btw doesn't happen to competent employees) to railroad towns where the company owned the town, owned the goods provided there, and set the prices?
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It does happen to competent employees? For you to say that only incompetents lose their jobs to outsourcing is ridiculous at best. Are not both about control?
 
#54
#54
JayVols said:
It does happen to competent employees? For you to say that only incompetents lose their jobs to outsourcing is ridiculous at best. Are not both about control?
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no, they aren't both about control. It's about money.
 
#55
#55
JayVols said:
It does happen to competent employees? For you to say that only incompetents lose their jobs to outsourcing is ridiculous at best. Are not both about control?
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revenue GENERATORS don't get outsourced. Revenue takers do.
 
#56
#56
BigPapaVol said:
I don't think anyone is debating that they clearly had a valuable service to provide at one time. Today, however, they're just another form of legalized ransom collector.
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Right or wrong, many see unions as their voice and a counterbalance to factors that they have little control over. Not necessarily my opinion. As I said earlier there are good and bad elements to unions. An example of a negative, while in college I worked in a factory where I saw unions protect useless people. I don't think that slackers should be allowed to hide behind a union. Unions should refocus on decent not excessive wages, safety, fair benefits, unfair treatment of PRODUCTIVE employees. I am not gullible enough to think that's all the unions stand for. They need reform to get back to basic protections. I am not as radical as most of you all are thinking I am. There is more than enough fault for both sides to go around. My dad was a union worker that did his job, went beyond when needed, took pride in his work, and was falsely accused of wrongdoing. The union helped him clear his name and reputation, and he received a written apology from the company. Without the union he would have been wrongfully terminated. That is where I am coming from. It protects some bad, unproductive, lazy workers. But they also protect some good men as well. They need to quit helping the former and do more of the latter.
 
#57
#57
But they do have control over any of these factors you listed. They can change jobs. This was not true 100 years ago.
 
#58
#58
droski said:
revenue GENERATORS don't get outsourced. Revenue takers do.
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Whatever. We have a fundamental difference here. Not trying to be a smart alec, but if you don't think that some productive people lose their jobs to outsourcing, your address must be Disneyland. The world is not as black & white or just/unjust as you perceive.
 
#59
#59
JayVols said:
Whatever. We have a fundamental difference here. Not trying to be a smart alec, but if you don't think that some productive people lose their jobs to outsourcing, your address must be Disneyland. The world is not as black & white or just/unjust as you perceive.
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depends what your definition is of productive people. you are the one putting a judgement on it. i didn't say hard working people can't get outsourced. only that the absolute way to be sure you never get outsourced is to be a revenue generator.
 
#60
#60
JayVols said:
Labor unions have their problems just like any other endeavor. But to do away with them? Nah. I know they brought such egregious concepts such as vacation, health benefits, decent wages, safety in the workplace, helping rid robber barons practice of using 8 yr old children to work in coal mines. With a record like that, it's a wonder anyone would want them to exist. If you think ANYTHING on this Earth is all good or all evil, you are mistaken.
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no union here and miraculously, I still get all these things. weird!
 
#61
#61
droski said:
But they do have control over any of these factors you listed. They can change jobs. This was not true 100 years ago.
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To me this elitist attitude is as much of the problem as you see my views. They could change jobs then as well. The workers weren't property of the companies as much as they would like to see it that way. The problem was finding another job.
 
#63
#63
Hard working people do from time to time face a cut to outsourcing. If the company can get hardworking labor for cheaper out of country, they will trade a hardworking American (with associated costs such as taxes, healthcare, office overhead, etc.) for hardworking foreign labor (with cheaper wages and far less regulation and overhead). Whether someone is hardworking or not is not the reason.
 
#65
#65
droski said:
i see so you think it's fair to compare outsourcing (which btw doesn't happen to competent employees) to railroad towns where the company owned the town, owned the goods provided there, and set the prices?
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depends what your definition is of productive people. you are the one putting a judgement on it. i didn't say hard working people can't get outsourced. only that the absolute way to be sure you never get outsourced is to be a revenue generator.Was this not you? competent/productive thats just semantics.
 
#66
#66
JayVols said:
To me this elitist attitude is as much of the problem as you see my views. They could change jobs then as well. The workers weren't property of the companies as much as they would like to see it that way. The problem was finding another job.
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back in the day because they were paying low wages and the employer set the prices at the general store the employees borrowed from the general store to be able to eat/drink etc. Therefore if you wanted to find another job you had to pay off your debt. Not so easy. Comparing that to today's labor market is laughable.
 
#67
#67
JayVols said:
depends what your definition is of productive people. you are the one putting a judgement on it. i didn't say hard working people can't get outsourced. only that the absolute way to be sure you never get outsourced is to be a revenue generator.
Was this not you? competent/productive thats just semantics.
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hard working and competent don't always go hand in hand. make yourself valuable to your employer and you wont have these problems. end of story.
 
#69
#69
Dr Dread said:
Often times, it's the decisions made from the top in order to increase profits that lead to less reliable products being produced. It's just easier to blame the workers. The auto industry is a perfect example.
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union member huh?
posted before I saw the second page......unions served a purpose very early on, they kill companies now
 
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#71
#71
JayVols said:
To me this elitist attitude is as much of the problem as you see my views. They could change jobs then as well. The workers weren't property of the companies as much as they would like to see it that way. The problem was finding another job.
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wow.....just wow
 
#72
#72
What I haven't seen yet is how high wage earners getting more causes or comes from low wage earners?

We also until recently didn't have an underconsumption problem - we had an over consumption problem based on cheap/easy credit and bubble inducing policies.

Finally, the notion that we need some type of protectionism to prop up jobs is a loser. Our economic position in the world will decline faster than it already is if we take that tact.
 
#74
#74
volinbham said:
What I haven't seen yet is how high wage earners getting more causes or comes from low wage earners?

We also until recently didn't have an underconsumption problem - we had an over consumption problem based on cheap/easy credit and bubble inducing policies.

Finally, the notion that we need some type of protectionism to prop up jobs is a loser. Our economic position in the world will decline faster than it already is if we take that tact.
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It doesn't. But more and more there is an attitude that all should benefit equally without regard to who produces the excess.
 
#75
#75
Another flaw in this analysis is the underlying assumption that the top 1% (or whatever percentage includes the robber barron bastages that are destroying American life) is a static group.

People move into and out of that group.
 
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