15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

#127
#127
sjt18 said:
Let's simplify that JayVols and just go back to one of the taxes our Founders allowed and favored: Import Tariffs. Those are one of the best ways for a sovereign country to prevent becoming an effective colony to another country. I would like to see our State Dept estimate wages in various competing foreign industrial countries to provide a basis for those tariffs. If the Chinese insist on paying their laborers $4/hr then we tariff them to bring that rate effectively up to the US minimum wage or industrial wage avg.

Why on earth though would you be opposed ANY tax cut for ANYONE? How does it help you in any way, shape, or form for investors to have potential $ that could create a productive job taxed away?
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I like the first idea. But I think that a tax cut off the top has the less bang for the buck. The nonpartisan CBO has reportred as much. I dont understand the notion of fighting deficits & then supportring a 4 trillion hit to the deficit over 10 yrs. I actually prefer a flat tax for everyone with no exemptions.
I like the discussion you offered. No attacks no BS. Its gonna take honest discussion no partisan attacks to get us out of the mess we are in. Time to remeber we are all Americans and on the same side.
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#128
#128
sjt18 said:
I think owners and management of companies that hire illegals should pay fines and go to jail.

I also think that any gov't employee that extends any continuing benefit to an illegal should face dismissal, fines, and jail. If you take away the incentive to come illegally... they won't come illegally.

Finally, we should set up border versions of Ellis Island to process legals quickly and effectively in through all 4 border states. Each site should have 2 dept's. One handles those looking for permanent status and citizenship and the other for the masses who want to work for awhile then go home.
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Agree 100%!
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#129
#129
Weezy said:
Couldn't we just put tariffs on imports from countries with unacceptable work conditions which would protect American manufacturing jobs? Might raise prices on some ****, but it might offset the loss of jobs and create incentive for companies not to outsource.
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Markets reach equillibrium and what you propose would actually close the wealth gap... which is why the elite who own the Dems and establishment Reps will never allow it to happen.
 
#130
#130
sjt18 said:
Because if you do not harvest, mine, invent, or add value to things... you do not create real wealth. The notion that we can survive on a service dominated economy is a myth. There is no real wealth creation.
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we've been a service based economy for 50 years and we've not only survived as a service based economy, we've thrived, with the best gdp growth rate of any first world country. what do you define as "real wealth?"
 
#131
#131
sjt18 said:
Markets reach equillibrium and what you propose would actually close the wealth gap... which is why the elite who own the Dems and establishment Reps will never allow it to happen.
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what a bunch of garbage. show me a single economy in world history that has thrived with these type of trade restrictions. and in what possible way is a L shaped supply curve the markets reaching equillibrium? why you want our best and brightest (or hell even our most stupid) spending their time making $200 toasters is beyond me.
 
#133
#133
JayVols said:
I like the first idea. But I think that a tax cut off the top has the less bang for the buck. The nonpartisan CBO has reportred as much. I dont understand the notion of fighting deficits & then supportring a 4 trillion hit to the deficit over 10 yrs. I actually prefer a flat tax for everyone with no exemptions.
I like the discussion you offered. No attacks no BS. Its gonna take honest discussion no partisan attacks to get us out of the mess we are in. Time to remeber we are all Americans and on the same side.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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The only solution to debts and deficits is spending cuts in relation to the growth of the economy. You can never raise taxes enough to cover it. Decreases in taxes on the investment class have proven repeatedly to help by generating economic activity.

Again I have to bring you back to a place of pointing a finger of blame. In the 90's with the wind at their backs, conservative idealists in the US House tried to cut spending in real, permanent, and meaningful ways. The press and Clinton squealed because of the "draconian cuts" to social programs. The actual proposals? Cut 7% growth to 4% and eliminate some things like the NEA, NPR, Dept of Energy, and Dept of Education.

When we had the chance to really head off the coming debt catastrophe... the Progressives demagogued the effort into the ground. Are you old enough to remember the gov't shutdowns over budget? That's because the conservatives wanted to limit gov't growth to an affordable rate... Dems seized on that opportunity to "win" at the expense of the future.
 
#134
#134
Tenacious D said:
I think we need a more unionized workforce.
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Only if they become subject to the same anti-trust, anti-monopoly laws that businesses are subject to. If that were the case then it could be a good solution. The best solution would be to revise labor laws to require a contract for every individual worker that could be negotiated individually. Basically turn everyone into a contractor with defined and documented rights rather employees who consider themselves the wards of the elites.
 
#135
#135
droski said:
we've been a service based economy for 50 years and we've not only survived as a service based economy, we've thrived, with the best gdp growth rate of any first world country. what do you define as "real wealth?"
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Half of all things manufactured in the world during the 1950's was made here. We didn't lose that in 10 years. The 50's was one of the biggest economic boom periods in history, and that was because that the largest percentage of the population ever fell into the middle class. We have not been a primarily service economy for 50 years, that is a load of imagined crap. 10 years maybe, but definitely not 50.
Defense is important to me. How does a service economy produce what is needed for national defense? We NEED to stop bleeding our manufacturing base to overseas countries to preserve our national security. What happens when we need China to build our defense equipment? Heaven forbid, we find ourselves in another world war. Where do we turn to when all we do is offer services? Take away their Dell's and access to Microsoft software? Without our manufacturing base the Germans take over the world. Money is not the end all be all. What good is money if you are controlled by foreign interests? You must have plenty of money to have an attitude like you do. It's the I've got mine to hell with everyone else attitude. Money is important, but honor, integrity, and love/success of country outweighs money any day.
 
#136
#136
JayVols said:
Half of all things manufactured in the world during the 1950's was made here. We didn't lose that in 10 years. The 50's was one of the biggest economic boom periods in history, and that was because that the largest percentage of the population ever fell into the middle class. We have not been a primarily service economy for 50 years, that is a load of imagined crap. 10 years maybe, but definitely not 50.
Defense is important to me. How does a service economy produce what is needed for national defense? We NEED to stop bleeding our manufacturing base to overseas countries to preserve our national security. What happens when we need China to build our defense equipment? Heaven forbid, we find ourselves in another world war. Where do we turn to when all we do is offer services? Take away their Dell's and access to Microsoft software? Without our manufacturing base the Germans take over the world. Money is not the end all be all. What good is money if you are controlled by foreign interests? You must have plenty of money to have an attitude like you do. It's the I've got mine to hell with everyone else attitude. Money is important, but honor, integrity, and love/success of country outweighs money any day.
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it's absolutely not crap. every mature economy in history has turned more into a service economy. that is the way to generate economic growth. not the other way around. do you want to be making $2,500 a year like the average chinaman? but hey they are making something with their bare hands.

we still produce the overwelming majority of our defense equipment.

money is what drives the love/success of this country. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much.
 
#137
#137
sjt18 said:
The only solution to debts and deficits is spending cuts in relation to the growth of the economy. You can never raise taxes enough to cover it. Decreases in taxes on the investment class have proven repeatedly to help by generating economic activity.

Again I have to bring you back to a place of pointing a finger of blame. In the 90's with the wind at their backs, conservative idealists in the US House tried to cut spending in real, permanent, and meaningful ways. The press and Clinton squealed because of the "draconian cuts" to social programs. The actual proposals? Cut 7% growth to 4% and eliminate some things like the NEA, NPR, Dept of Energy, and Dept of Education.

When we had the chance to really head off the coming debt catastrophe... the Progressives demagogued the effort into the ground. Are you old enough to remember the gov't shutdowns over budget? That's because the conservatives wanted to limit gov't growth to an affordable rate... Dems seized on that opportunity to "win" at the expense of the future.
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Yes, I am old enough. I think both side demagogue. Reagan started the massive spending, just on different programs (mainly defense). Not pointing fingers, just illustrating a point. Neither side has a monopoly on demagoguery.
We need to trim fat on ALL Federal programs IMO.
 
#138
#138
sjt18 said:
Only if they become subject to the same anti-trust, anti-monopoly laws that businesses are subject to. If that were the case then it could be a good solution. The best solution would be to revise labor laws to require a contract for every individual worker that could be negotiated individually. Basically turn everyone into a contractor with defined and documented rights rather employees who consider themselves the wards of the elites.
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yes this is the way to get people back to work. massive amounts of new paperwork. sweet jesus.
 
#139
#139
droski said:
it's absolutely not crap. every mature economy in history has turned more into a service economy. that is the way to generate economic growth. not the other way around. do you want to be making $2,500 a year like the average chinaman?

we still produce the overwelming majority of our defense equipment.

money is what drives the love/success of this country. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much.
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OK there skippy. I am a religious man also, and the love of money, I have been taught and believe, is the root of all evil.
What in the world is Teldar Paper?
 
#140
#140
droski said:
what a bunch of garbage. show me a single economy in world history that has thrived with these type of trade restrictions. and in what possible way is a L shaped supply curve the markets reaching equillibrium? why you want our best and brightest (or hell even our most stupid) spending their time making $200 toasters is beyond me.
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Has anyone ever selectively put tariffs only on countries with poor working conditions?

I'm not going to argue that our country doesn't need those jobs. That part makes sense. I'm just looking for some reading material. I read up on Japan. That explains the general reasoning that tariffs in general are bad. I'm just looking for information where specific countries were targeted.
 
#141
#141
JayVols said:
OK there skippy. I am a religious man also, and the love of money, I have been taught and believe, is the root of all evil.
What in the world is Teldar Paper?
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someone needs to watch wall street :)

as for money being the root of all evil i'd love to see a church that survives and thrives without $$$$. man is nothing without motivation. motivation for money, love, whatever. make sure a certain % of people earn a living no matter what the effort and you take away that motivation. make sure a certain % of people can only make so much money and you take away the motivation to create new and greater things. there is no coincidence that this country has produced the overwelming majority of the greatest medical advances in the world while those countries who regulate the cost have produced nothing. this is human nature. ignoring it is just plain silly.
 
#142
#142
Weezy said:
Has anyone ever selectively put tariffs only on countries with poor working conditions?

I'm not going to argue that our country doesn't need those jobs. That part makes sense. I'm just looking for some reading material. I read up on Japan. That explains the general reasoning that tariffs in general are bad. I'm just looking for information where specific countries were targeted.
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how about cuba? that's really helped out the poor people there huh? what you consider living in poverty in the US would be living like a king in china or thailand.

i'm not sure why it matters what countries are targeted? a tax is a tax.
 
#143
#143
droski said:
what a bunch of garbage. show me a single economy in world history that has thrived with these type of trade restrictions. and in what possible way is a L shaped supply curve the markets reaching equillibrium? why you want our best and brightest (or hell even our most stupid) spending their time making $200 toasters is beyond me.
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I don't. For one, I want those currently living off an array of social programs doing manual labor rather than simply being paid to breath. Second, I want a window in which we can automate some of those "toaster making" operations so that we produce more toasters, cheaper using techs and mechanics who keep machines running rather than running like machines.

FWIW, I know a community that was devastated when its toaster making operation moved out of the country. The jobs were largely held by the wives of farmers who primarily worked for insurance.

Just because you don't value those types of jobs... doesn't mean that someone doesn't have to do them nor that they aren't extremely valuable to someone.

In toto... it is ALWAYS better to have someone produce SOMETHING for their keep.
 
#144
#144
And I don't know much about economics, but removing the Department of Energy would be silly.
 
#146
#146
Weezy said:
And I don't know much about economics, but removing the Department of Energy would be silly.
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No. It wouldn't. We didn't have one until the oil crisis of the 70's. Before that, those functions were performed by other depts... I think commerce was one.

That dept has never been justified. It was a knee jerk liberal reaction to a problem... throw money at the problem and hope it solves itself.

It provides next to zero tangible benefit.
 
#147
#147
JayVols said:
Yes, I am old enough. I think both side demagogue. Reagan started the massive spending, just on different programs (mainly defense). Not pointing fingers, just illustrating a point. Neither side has a monopoly on demagoguery.
We need to trim fat on ALL Federal programs IMO.
Click to expand...

Reagan compromised on budgets. He needed defense spending and gave in on domestic spending to get it. He never had a like-minded congress to work with.
 
#148
#148
sjt18 said:
FWIW, I know a community that was devastated when its toaster making operation moved out of the country. The jobs were largely held by the wives of farmers who primarily worked for insurance.
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you see the loss of the jobs, while i see an inefficient use of our labor force. these are bad economic times, but history has shown us that new industries appear in these times. you assume some sort of zero sum game where jobs lost in one industry are never recovered. creating an environment that keeps inefficient jobs of this variety only prevents these people from retraining and moving to industries that actually need them. this type of short term thinking is exactly what torpedoed japans economy in the 90s. the ability to fire and hire people as you see fit is the core of long term economic growth. we want people moving forward and the US dominating the new new thing, not focusing on the industries important 40 years ago. we'll surely be left behind by those countries that encourage innovation if we implement your strategy.
 
#150
#150
droski said:
it's absolutely not crap. every mature economy in history has turned more into a service economy. that is the way to generate economic growth. not the other way around. do you want to be making $2,500 a year like the average chinaman? but hey they are making something with their bare hands.
Click to expand...
You mean mature... as in right before they fail, right?

we still produce the overwelming majority of our defense equipment.
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I am pro-defense but that should not be included in the discussion. We produce that material in the hopes that we never actually use it. Either way it ultimately becomes a net drag on wealth by being "wasted" destructively.

money is what drives the love/success of this country. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

If we do not produce, mine, invent, or improve things... we will not generate real wealth nor be able to sustain our economy. That is the actual story of the history you cite.
 
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