15 Numbers: November Edition

#151
#151
Getting a big man in foul trouble is a valid point. If you can guarantee me that rate gets 2-3 fouls on an important player, its a positive. Each situation stands on its own most often.
 
#152
#152
Spartacavolus said:
Maymon's league leading ft rate correlates to him being about choice #8 or 9 on the team to have on the line down the stretch in games. That's not a positive right now. It's actually a negative.
That you can't see how his ft rate and 60% made creates a problem for a coach down the stretch of games isn't my problem.
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It has nothing to do with UT wanting him on the line down the stretch.
 
#153
#153
MemphisCanes said:
It has nothing to do with UT wanting him on the line down the stretch.
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good gracious man, think outside of your tunnel. You responded to my earlier post that Maymons ft rate % is a100% positive stat. I'm making points in regards to his ft rate that actually don't make it a positive, but potentially a negative in a game that is won or lost down the stretch at the ft line because the guy getting there the most isn't a consistent shooter.
The point is to win the game. If you have a player with such a high ft rate, but can't have him in the game at the end to risk being fouled, how in the hell is that a positive stat.
It has plenty to do with being on the foul line and it's possible affect on a game. If he's 80%, it's a great stat and you feed him everytime late. At 60%, not so much.
 
#154
#154
Spartacavolus said:
good gracious man, think outside of your tunnel. You responded to my earlier post that Maymons ft rate % is a100% positive stat. I'm making points in regards to his ft rate that actually don't make it a positive, but potentially a negative in a game that is won or lost down the stretch at the ft line because the guy getting there the most isn't a consistent shooter.
The point is to win the game. If you have a player with such a high ft rate, but can't have him in the game at the end to risk being fouled, how in the hell is that a positive stat.
It has plenty to do with being on the foul line and it's possible affect on a game. If he's 80%, it's a great stat and you feed him everytime late. At 60%, not so much.
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Maymon's FT rate is a positive stat, it's only a good thing. It has nothing to do with who you want shooting free throws down the stretch. You're so wrapped up with the end of games, I can't seem to get through to you. What about the other 95% of the game?

Here's a hypothetical: Jordan McRae's Offensive rating is great, top 150 in the nation, because he can score and because he takes a prolific amount of threes and hits them at about a .32% clip. His offensive rating is a positive stat, no matter what. However, if UT is down 2 or 3 points in the final possession of the game, you'd probably rather have Barton shoot it, because he makes 3's (albeit fewer 3s than McRae) at a 45% clip.

His 3 pt% doesn't make his Offensive Rating bad, it's just a different stat that tells us something different.
 
#155
#155
I've got the ball in McRae's hands if I need a shot to win the game, or if he gets fouled I want him at the line.
Your stat says Barton. My gut says McRae. My gut wins again.

I'm not explaining the other issue to you again. It took 2 weeks for my point to sink in on the poss/gm debate and this simple point doesn't seem to be moving any faster. Your stat is worthless unless the player is knocking them down. Period.
 
#156
#156
If Maymon would start bending his freakin knees at the line this conversation would be moot. hahaha

Easier said thatn done for him tho I guess.
 
#157
#157
Spartacavolus said:
I've got the ball in McRae's hands if I need a shot to win the game, or if he gets fouled I want him at the line.
Your stat says Barton. My gut says McRae. My gut wins again.

I'm not explaining the other issue to you again. It took 2 weeks for my point to sink in on the poss/gm debate and this simple point doesn't seem to be moving any faster. Your stat is worthless unless the player is knocking them down. Period.
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Jesus. It's like banging my f*&*ing head against a wall. OK, live in the dark. I'm through trying to teach you something. You're clueless.
 
#159
#159
I hope Sparty payed extra close attention to Cotton's FT Rate against the Vols on Saturday. Ate them up, even though he was a 66% foul shooter he still managed to score 19 points on only 4 made FGs because he got to the line.

But tell us more about how Jeronne Maymon shouldn't be shooting FTs. Heh.
 
#160
#160
MemphisCanes said:
I hope Sparty payed extra close attention to Cotton's FT Rate against the Vols on Saturday. Ate them up, even though he was a 66% foul shooter he still managed to score 19 points on only 4 made FGs because he got to the line.

But tell us more about how Jeronne Maymon shouldn't be shooting FTs. Heh.
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Our problem is making the FT's once we get there more than anything IMO.
 
#163
#163
Ericvol2096 said:
Very true. You would think our big guys would be foul drawing machines.
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kes and Maymon normally are, and even though they both shoot FT's in the 60s percentage-wise, that's a huge part of how effective Martin's offense usually is.

Neither one got to the FT line enough against the Shockers though, which was a big reason that UT didn't put up more points on offense (along with O rebounding).
 
#164
#164
MemphisCanes said:
I hope Sparty payed extra close attention to Cotton's FT Rate against the Vols on Saturday. Ate them up, even though he was a 66% foul shooter he still managed to score 19 points on only 4 made FGs because he got to the line.

But tell us more about how Jeronne Maymon shouldn't be shooting FTs. Heh.
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you just made my point for me. Thank you. It only took you a few weeks. Cotton made them so a high ft% rate is a positive. When you miss them, it's not. That was the entire point. You spent 2 weeks telling me that it didn't matter if Maymon made them or missed them because I was to take ft% rate by itself. Now, you bring up Cotton making them to try to prove your point?
Thanks for coming full circle again.

Who's next?
 
#165
#165
Spartacavolus said:
you just made my point for me. Thank you. It only took you a few weeks. Cotton made them so a high ft% rate is a positive. When you miss them, it's not. That was the entire point. You spent 2 weeks telling me that it didn't matter if Maymon made them or missed them because I was to take ft% rate by itself. Now, you bring up Cotton making them to try to prove your point?
Thanks for coming full circle again.

Who's next?
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Cotton shot FTs at a 66% coming into that game. Maymom shoots FTs at 65%.

You still want to do this, champ? I don't want to have to pull your card in front of these guys, because they seem to respect your basketball acumen. But I will if you want me to.
 
#166
#166
Spartacavolus said:
you just made my point for me. Thank you. It only took you a few weeks. Cotton made them so a high ft% rate is a positive. When you miss them, it's not. That was the entire point. You spent 2 weeks telling me that it didn't matter if Maymon made them or missed them because I was to take ft% rate by itself. Now, you bring up Cotton making them to try to prove your point?
Thanks for coming full circle again.

Who's next?
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Come on man, you don't see improving offensive rebounds(cause we can't make a freakin ft) a positive?

Answer: maybe if we were making the layup afterward. :)
 
#167
#167
MemphisCanes said:
Cotton shot FTs at a 66% coming into that game. Maymom shoots FTs at 65%.

You still want to do this, champ? I don't want to have to pull your card in front of these guys, because they seem to respect your basketball acumen. But I will if you want me to.
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your bs stat's success is 100% dependant on if the player makes or misses them. Like. I. said from the start. Now you are arguing my point for me.
If Cotton goes 0-9, is your tunnelvisioned ass on here talking about the high ft% rate being a positive as their team loses due to his misses?
 
#169
#169
Ok, since you're still claiming that Maymon shouldn't be shooting FTs because he shot (at the time ) 60%, sit down and let me explain something to you...

Even though he's only making 60% of his FTs (now he's actually up to 65%), having Maymon shoot FTs at 60% is AMAZING offensively.

I'll repeat that, so let it sink in. Maymon shooting FTs at 60% is still scoring points more efficiently than any other team in D1 can score right now.

Hypothetically, if Maymon draws a shooting foul every time down the floor (a really good FT Rate) and shoots 2 FTs at a 60% clip, he's scoring 6 points every 5 possessions (6 out of 10 foul shots) on average for your offense. Never mind the possibility that he gets an And-1 play, or that Stokes grabs an offensive board. Never mind the possibility that he draws fouls on key members of the opposing team. He's making 6 points for you every 5 trips down the floor, without a single FG being made.

That's 6 points per 5 possessions, or 120 points per 100 possessions. The best, most efficient team in D1 on offense (Louisville) scores 118.7 points per 100 possessions. Maymon, just shooting FTs at 60%, scores the ball more efficiently than the most effective offense in the nation. That's not taking into account when he makes a FG and gets fouled, or when someone grabs an offensive rebound from his missed FT, or the fact that he's drawing fouls on opposing bigs, or the fact that Maymon is actually shooting about 65% right now.

When a player that shoots 60% is getting to the foul line, it's strictly better (120 points per 100 possessions) than any thing else UT's team is currently doing on offense (114.2 points per 100 possessions).

Now you can be embarrassed.
 
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#171
#171
you are clueless about basketball, so stick with skewing stats. Now you have Maymon going to the line to shoot 2 everytime down the floor to try and make a point? No misses, turnovers? Just straight up going to shoot 2 and making 6 of 10. Yeah, if you want to make a point about hoops on a situation that will never occur, you go ahead. That's where you've had to go because you can't see the simple point about making ft's.
A 40% 3 pt shooter scores the same 6 pts in 2 shots anyway, so maybe we can just find a bunch of shooters and go Loyola Marymount on everybody. And your offensive efficience bs stat was blown up as well, so lets not go there again. I don't need another jackwagon to tell me our offense is efficient because a stat tells them, even though we rank towards the bottom of the league in shots attempted, made and fg%.

So, in conclusion, I'll take Louisville and their less efficient offense and you can have Maymon. That was a great point you made to stand on.

To sum you stat business up, you base an opinion on an extreme hypothetical and basically say Maymon is more efficient than Louisville. That's brilliant.
Allow me to sum up the game:
-down 2, or even down 1, 20 seconds left, your most efficient player, as measured by your standards, is one of the last options on the court, if on the court at all. Up by 2-3 late in a game, your highly efficient Maymon is on the bench.
Of course, that takes into consideration what actually is happening or will happen on the court, versus your entirely hypothetical fantasy land Maymon v Louisville comparison.
 
#172
#172
Spartacavolus said:
you are clueless about basketball, so stick with skewing stats. Now you have Maymon going to the line to shoot 2 everytime down the floor to try and make a point? No misses, turnovers?

They're all FG misses, that's how you get to shoot 2 FTs. I don't take into account TOs (something UT doesn't have a problem with), but I also don't take into account O rebounding (a huge strength of UT's) or foul trouble.

Just straight up going to shoot 2 and making 6 of 10. Yeah, if you want to make a point about hoops on a situation that will never occur, you go ahead. That's where you've had to go because you can't see the simple point about making ft's.

This point proves that shooting FTs at 60% is still better than not shooting FTs, Ignoramus.


A 40% 3 pt shooter scores the same 6 pts in 2 shots anyway, so maybe we can just find a bunch of shooters and go Loyola Marymount on everybody.

Uh, maybe herein lies the problem. You can't count. But, hypothetically, shooting 40% from 3 IS A POSITIVE. EXAMPLE FAIL.

And your offensive efficience bs stat was blown up as well, so lets not go there again. I don't need another jackwagon to tell me our offense is efficient because a stat tells them, even though we rank towards the bottom of the league in shots attempted, made and fg%.

How is my offensive efficiency stat overblown, Nate Silver?

So, in conclusion, I'll take Louisville and their less efficient offense and you can have Maymon. That was a great point you made to stand on.

To sum you stat business up, you base an opinion on an extreme hypothetical and basically say Maymon is more efficient than Louisville. That's brilliant.
Allow me to sum up the game:
-down 2, or even down 1, 20 seconds left, your most efficient player, as measured by your standards, is one of the last options on the court, if on the court at all. Up by 2-3 late in a game, your highly efficient Maymon is on the bench.

How does this scenario have any bearing on what we're talking about? Try to stay focused, Old Timer. We're talking about whether it's good or bad that Maymon shoots FTs, not who you want at the line if you need 1 or 2.

Of course, that takes into consideration what actually is happening or will happen on the court, versus your entirely hypothetical fantasy land Maymon v Louisville comparison.
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I'm beginning to doubt that you even have the ability to comprehend what Z and I are trying to tell you. You don't seem to understand even the simplest mathematical concepts being thrown around here.
 
#173
#173
Spartacavolus said:
you are clueless about basketball, so stick with skewing stats. Now you have Maymon going to the line to shoot 2 everytime down the floor to try and make a point? No misses, turnovers? Just straight up going to shoot 2 and making 6 of 10. Yeah, if you want to make a point about hoops on a situation that will never occur, you go ahead. That's where you've had to go because you can't see the simple point about making ft's.
A 40% 3 pt shooter scores the same 6 pts in 2 shots anyway, so maybe we can just find a bunch of shooters and go Loyola Marymount on everybody. And your offensive efficience bs stat was blown up as well, so lets not go there again. I don't need another jackwagon to tell me our offense is efficient because a stat tells them, even though we rank towards the bottom of the league in shots attempted, made and fg%.

So, in conclusion, I'll take Louisville and their less efficient offense and you can have Maymon. That was a great point you made to stand on.

To sum you stat business up, you base an opinion on an extreme hypothetical and basically say Maymon is more efficient than Louisville. That's brilliant.
Allow me to sum up the game:
-down 2, or even down 1, 20 seconds left, your most efficient player, as measured by your standards, is one of the last options on the court, if on the court at all. Up by 2-3 late in a game, your highly efficient Maymon is on the bench.
Of course, that takes into consideration what actually is happening or will happen on the court, versus your entirely hypothetical fantasy land Maymon v Louisville comparison.
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And by your logic, you want Quinn Cannington at the foul line, not Lofton because Quinn hit 4 of 4, therefore 100% for his career.
 
#174
#174
whobethis16 said:
And by your logic, you want Quinn Cannington at the foul line, not Lofton because Quinn hit 4 of 4, therefore 100% for his career.
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I think what he's saying is he'd rather a 60% foul shooter not get fouled at all, which is ridiculous. Anyone else drawing shooting fouls during a game other than Darius Thompson (because he shoots the highest %) is not a positive thing for the offense.

It's really the dumbest thing I've heard in a long, long time.
 
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