'16 LA WR Corey Henderson (UT commit 3/30/15)

#351
#351
butchna said:
They'd had the benefit of players getting immersed in the system dating back to RGIII...Stidham is the best runner dating back to the same. They might simplify some of their schemes but in the end I believe Stidham never gives the job back the rest of his career.
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He very well may not. Highly rated as a HS SR, has played extremely well in his time this season, and Baylor's system has been plug-and-play in terms of QBs.

Stidham is very good. I was just saying it's hard to beat what Russell had done through 7 games (#1 QB rating in FBS, #1 in TD passes in FBS, #1 in YPA in FBS). Stidham may pick right up where Russell left off though. You can't really argue with his results so far in limited action.
 
#352
#352
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Let me guess, you probably thought Oregon would win the title last year? I really don't know why folks keep falling for the spread gimmick? Look at how Oregon was exposed in national title games by the likes of Ohio State and Auburn. Same thing will happen to Baylor. Just wait till Baylor plays a team filled with 4 and 5 star defensive lineman that'll punch em in the mouth.

To win the national title, you need 3-4 top 5 recruiting classes stacked on top of one another. Just look at the last 3 champions. Ohio State, Florida State, Alabama. All 3 has top 5 recruiting classes during the 3 years preceding the national title.

Baylor is not seeing the title. If history is any indicator, the national title will be claimed by Alabama, Ohio State, or LSU. They're the only teams with top 5 recruiting classes each of the last 3 years.
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I called Oregon decline starting the day Kelly left. Baylor is a different kind of domination than Oregon was even with Kelly.
 
#353
#353
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Baylor has no chance against the likes of Alabama or LSU. Hell I expect Oklahoma to beat them. Any team with a good d-line and run game can beat them.

Folks get fooled by the fact they play nobody and play a gimmick style. LSU would never outscore it's opposition the way Baylor does because of their scheme. But if they played, they would kill Baylor because of how much more physical they are on the line of scrimmage.

Remember how Ohio State dominated the line of scrimmage against Oregon in the national title game. That's the difference between ELITE recruiting and a gimmick offense.
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Baylor is better top to bottom on both lines than Oregon was last year.
 
#354
#354
cncchris33 said:
He very well may not. Highly rated as a HS SR, has played extremely well in his time this season, and Baylor's system has been plug-and-play in terms of QBs.

Stidham is very good. I was just saying it's hard to beat what Russell had done through 7 games (#1 QB rating in FBS, #1 in TD passes in FBS, #1 in YPA in FBS). Stidham may pick right up where Russell left off though. You can't really argue with his results so far in limited action.
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I wish the new kid could have warmed up against the scrubs before the neat of the schedule.
 
#355
#355
cncchris33 said:
Your logic is so flawed because you insinuate that not recruiting in the top 5 equals bad football players. You ignore that Baylor's d-line has two 1st rd draft picks playing on it, and that their o-line has at least one 1st rounder, and all 5 will probably play in the NFL. That's either superior level coaching, or superior level scouting and development.

Shock Linwood leads the Big-12 in rushing behind that o-line. Heck, their 2nd string RB is 9th in the conference, and their 3rd stringer is 11th. Seth Russell, the QB, is 10th! Blame their lack of competition, and no one is going to pound the podium in defense of their schedule, but also realize each of those players are usually only playing 2 or 3 quarters each game as well.

Sure, the meat of their schedule awaits, and all bets are off now that Seth Russell is out for the year, but you just seem to have an agenda against Baylor, spread offenses in general, and teams that don't recruit inside the top-5 annually.

Florida State runs a pro-style offense, had classes ranked 3rd, 11th, and 4th leading in to last season, and they got their faces caved in by Oregon in the CFP semifinals.
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There are good players everywhere. Don't get it twisted. I'm not dismissing the fact Baylor has some really good players. I personally think Corey Coleman is the best senior WR in the country and Andrew Billings is as good a DT as any in the SEC.

The difference between a Baylor and LSU/Alabama is DEPTH. Yes Baylor has 2 NFL defensive lineman on their team. Most of the top teams in the SEC like Alabama and LSU have 4-6 NFL defensive lineman.

That's why teams that have several years worth of top 5 recruiting classes win national titles. They eventually overwhelm the Baylors or Oregons of the world by sending wave after wave of elite players.

That's what happened to Oregon when they played Ohio State. Eventually Ohio State's elite depth beat them out. Its what's been happening to us this year in 4th quarters against the likes of Alabama and Florida. Our top 22 can play with anyone. But it's that elite depth that decides 4th quarters. And it's why another elite recruiting class is critical if we're gonna be competing for the SEC championship next year.
 
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#356
#356
jave36 said:
Baylor is better top to bottom on both lines than Oregon was last year.
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That's possible. But they are no where close to LSU, Alabama, or Ohio State. If history is any guide, the national champ this season will come from one of these 3 teams. They are the only ones with top 5-10 recruiting classes each of the last 3 years.

Thus they are the only teams with that elite depth necessary to win the national title.
 
#357
#357
cncchris33 said:
He very well may not. Highly rated as a HS SR, has played extremely well in his time this season, and Baylor's system has been plug-and-play in terms of QBs.

Stidham is very good. I was just saying it's hard to beat what Russell had done through 7 games (#1 QB rating in FBS, #1 in TD passes in FBS, #1 in YPA in FBS). Stidham may pick right up where Russell left off though. You can't really argue with his results so far in limited action.
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True on Russell but it seems in this system the next man up improves on his predecessor...Texas Tech under Leach dynamic. Briles keeps tinkering like a mad scientist and everything comes up aces.
 
#358
#358
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
There are good players everywhere. Don't get it twisted. I'm not dismissing the fact Baylor has some really good players. I personally think Corey Coleman is the best senior WR in the country and Andrew Billings is as good a DT as any in the SEC.

The difference between a Baylor and LSU/Alabama is DEPTH. Yes Baylor has 2 NFL defensive lineman on their team. Most of the top teams in the SEC like Alabama and LSU have 4-6 NFL defensive lineman.

That's why teams that have several years worth of top 5 recruiting classes win national titles. They eventually overwhelm the Baylors or Oregons of the world by sending wave after wave of elite players.

That's what happened to Oregon when they played Ohio State. Eventually Ohio State's elite depth beat them out. Its what's been happening to us this year in 4th quarters against the likes of Alabama and Florida. Our top 22 can play with anyone. But it's that elite depth that decides 4th quarters. And it's why another elite recruiting class is critical if we're gonna be competing for the SEC championship next year.
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I still think you are casting a wide net in dismissing offenses like Baylor and Oregon. Making it to the national title game is an accomplishment in and of itself. Sure they got beat, but they waxed the defending national champs in the semifinals, and that team (FSU) fit your description for a title contender pretty well. So it isn't as black and white as you seem to want to portray it.

Also, I think you continue to discount Art Briles' coaching ability and his staff's ability to scout and develop underrated/unknown talent. Furthermore, their recruiting is improving year by year.

To your point about depth, Tennessee suffers from a lack of depth because they don't have superior coaching to offset injuries at key positions. Baylor does. Oregon did with Chip Kelly. Comparing present day Tennessee with those two programs isn't really fair because I haven't seen Briles' coaching ability or Kelly's coaching ability in Butch Jones. Tennessee didn't lose to OU, UF, and Arky because of a lack of depth. They lost because of a lack of sound coaching decisions. Give Briles or Kelly that same Tennessee team and a double-digit lead, and it's lights out. Alabama is the only team to out-talent Tennessee this year.

Edit: Also, C. Coleman is a rJR, not a SR. Doesn't affect either of our points, just throwing it out there.
 
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#359
#359
butchna said:
True on Russell but it seems in this system the next man up improves on his predecessor...Texas Tech under Leach dynamic. Briles keeps tinkering like a mad scientist and everything comes up aces.
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True, but the successor hasn't ever been a true FR being thrown into the fire midseason (at least to my knowledge).

I agree with you. Briles will make it work.
 
#360
#360
cncchris33 said:
True, but the successor hasn't ever been a true FR being thrown into the fire midseason (at least to my knowledge).

I agree with you. Briles will make it work.
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Technically true...RGIII was the true freshman QB in Briles first year at Baylor...so he wasn't a successor. We know that's not Briles preference but the parallel is that this is his most special QB recruit SINCE Griffin. I know that Griffin was an EE...don't know if Stidham was.
 
#361
#361
butchna said:
Technically true...RGIII was the true freshman QB in Briles first year at Baylor...so he wasn't a successor. We know that's not Briles preference but the parallel is that this is his most special QB recruit SINCE Griffin. I know that Griffin was an EE...don't know if Stidham was.
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Stidham was an EE. Wish we could have landed him.
 
#364
#364
SMH. I can't believe people still consider a read option spread offense that operates predominately out of the shotgun as a gimmick. 6 of the last 10 national champions have employed a variant of this kind of offense. Urban Meyer did plenty to prove it could work in the SEC. Not to mention he whipped Bama with it just last year. Heck, you could argue that Hal Mumme proved that a form of it could be successful in the SEC like 17 years ago. What more does it take?

My dad hates it b/c he says you can't get the tough two yards when you need them. But we've done a better job of getting that tough short yardage than at any point the last 10 years. That's b/c we've got an absolute sledgehammer back there in Hurd. And I don't get people saying he doesn't fit what we do either. Hurd can push the pile up the gut and get the corner on the likes of Bama and UGA too. Hurd is boss. He'll prob finish with 1,000 yards this season, and probably get more than that next year behind better blocking. I Hope we're always fortunate enough to keep a guy that "doesn't fit the system" like that on the roster.

Some have argued that it takes a particular type of QB to be successful. That may be, but it takes at least 5 particular guys on the OL and at least one particular RB to do what Bama and LSU do too.

The bottom line is when you put SEC caliber athletes in that type of offense you can win a lot of SEC games.
 
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#365
#365
cncchris33 said:
He very well may not. Highly rated as a HS SR, has played extremely well in his time this season, and Baylor's system has been plug-and-play in terms of QBs.

Stidham is very good. I was just saying it's hard to beat what Russell had done through 7 games (#1 QB rating in FBS, #1 in TD passes in FBS, #1 in YPA in FBS). Stidham may pick right up where Russell left off though. You can't really argue with his results so far in limited action.
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Briles is a great offensive mind and has had QB's who have been unbelievably productive. But the interesting thing is that he hasn't produced a good NFL QB. I probably don't know enough about football to really analyze it, but I would say they are system QB's. I would use that against him in recruiting, but he will always get a good QB in Texas.
 
#366
#366
VolGee4 said:
Briles is a great offensive mind and has had QB's who have been unbelievably productive. But the interesting thing is that he hasn't produced a good NFL QB. I probably don't know enough about football to really analyze it, but I would say they are system QB's. I would use that against him in recruiting, but he will always get a good QB in Texas.
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What was the knock on Petty? Why didn't nfl teams like him?
 
#367
#367
VolGee4 said:
Briles is a great offensive mind and has had QB's who have been unbelievably productive. But the interesting thing is that he hasn't produced a good NFL QB. I probably don't know enough about football to really analyze it, but I would say they are system QB's. I would use that against him in recruiting, but he will always get a good QB in Texas.
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RG3 was really good as a rookie, but after his injury, he was never the same physically or mentally.

Jury is still out on Petty since he hasn't really gotten a shot yet.

Russell was supposedly the best of the bunch. The most complete, well-rounded.

Stidham is supposedly better than Russell. Briles calls him the best FR QB he has ever coached.

I think your point has some validity in general perspective, but in reality, RG3 is the only QB to really have a shot at succeeding/failing as a pro, and he's done a little bit of both.
 
#368
#368
jave36 said:
What was the knock on Petty? Why didn't nfl teams like him?
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Knowledge was the issue with Petty during the interview portions according to what I heard. A lot of arm talent but a more significant knowledge gap than some teams were comfortable with.

Why the NFL Has a Quarterback Crisis - WSJ

At Baylor, quarterback Bryce Petty was one of the most prolific passers in the country. He led the Bears to two conference championships in his last two seasons on campus and holds 31 Baylor passing records and has the lowest percentage of interceptions per pass in NCAA history.

But NFL teams were wary of Petty. Because Baylor played a “spread” offense that forced defenses to fan out across the field, making them unable to disguise anything, many scouts worried he would struggle to master the NFL game. He had to wait until the 103rd pick before the New York Jets scooped him up. Petty said he was “upset and frustrated that I was thrown away like I couldn’t learn it,” he said. “I’m like ‘you’ve got to give me a chance a little bit.’”

Petty admits to grappling with tasks such as hearing and calling the play, identifying defensive backs in coverage and identifying which player in the defensive backfield was the “mike” linebacker, the central part of the defense whose location teams base their offensive line protections on. “As crazy as it sounds, at Baylor, we did not point out the ‘mike’ linebacker,” Petty said.

Petty was unfamiliar with making adjustments to the play or the formation before the snap.

“Honestly, I wish I’d done a little bit more as far as being proactive to get into a pro style [offense],” he said, singling out the need to decipher fronts or coverages. “It was things I have never seen before.”
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#369
#369
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#371
#371
Tennessee Golfer said:
How can you not find the Mike? It's usually the same guy on most every play. It isn't rocket science.
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Thus the reservations about drafting the kid. Baylor puts up video game numbers on offense but they're not the best place to prepare a kid for the next level.
 
#373
#373
He said his visit to Alabama next week shouldn’t be taken as a sign that he’s giving strong consideration to the Crimson Tide.

"And especially after I saw (Alabama) play Tennessee last week. We almost got them last week. I wanted us to beat them really bad. It kind of shifted there at the end, so I’m pulling for LSU right now going down for the Alabama visit. I’m going to be pulling for LSU.”

Henderson said he has stayed in frequent contact with Zach Azzanni, Tennessee’s wide receivers coach and passing game coordinator, and he’s looking forward to visiting the Vols again once his season is over.

He hasn’t been back to Tennessee since attending its spring-ending Orange and White Game in April, but he said his relationship with Azzanni is one of the reasons he’s still sold on the Vols.

GoVols247
 
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