'17 FL WR Jacquez Jones (UT signee)

#253
#253
Orange And Garnet said:
And what we have seems to be working too.
Click to expand...

We've signed quite a few of those highly rated types in 2014 and 2015. I'd rather get them than pass for concern their ego might not mesh well. Just have to make sure from day 1 they know their place. Worrying about higher rated guys and egos is something I'd expect to see Vandy using as a reason they aren't getting them. Not so much Tennessee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#255
#255
CrunchingTheVolz said:
We've signed quite a few of those highly rated types in 2014 and 2015. I'd rather get them than pass for concern their ego might not mesh well. Just have to make sure from day 1 they know their place. Worrying about higher rated guys and egos is something I'd expect to see Vandy using as a reason they aren't getting them. Not so much Tennessee.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Need at least close to half or majority of class to be 4/5stars to compete at high level in this league the. Sprinkle in a few 3 stars. Can't have a class full of 3 stars with just a handful of 4/5 stars. They don't have to be 4/5 stars across every site but need to have at least one of the big 4 sites to have them there.

I'm not bashing our current class yet though because I do feel like quite a few of the 3 stars will eventually be bumped or should be. Jones isn't one of them as I think he is ranked correctly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#256
#256
So hypothetically: Well over half of the NFL were 3 stars or less in high school. Even first rounders are 60:40 ratio of 4 and 5 stars as compared to 3 star or less. Which simply means there are a nice group of very talented players lurking in that big pile of 3 stars, but they're much harder to find. If you were able to identify capable 3 stars at a rate consistent with the expected rate of success of 4 and 5 stars, which would you emphasize recruiting? Who do you think would work the hardest? Who do you think would bring the best attitudes to the locker room? Which do you think would reflect the blue-collar sensibilities of our coach?

And before the flames start, I didn't say that Butch had that capability, just pointing out that the statement that says you have to have 4 and 5 stars to win is provably false. You build an entire college team out of 3 stars that made the NFL, and I promise they will win championships. It really then comes down to how well you can find the wheat in the chaff. Butch's 3 star bonanza may prove to be his downfall, only time will tell. But it just may be that they are capable of picking 3 star winners at a rate much higher than others, and you may not see that much of a drop over time, even if the services disagree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#258
#258
Also, when Fulmer and staff got a little lazy and looked at ratings then it all started falling apart. Ratings are great but need to be in combo with evaluation. Bama gets top star rated players but also evaluate the ones they take and get rid of them quick if it doesn't work with the team. Ok if we follow the same plan. Hate Bama but it has been working for them.
 
#259
#259
SSVol said:
So hypothetically: Well over half of the NFL were 3 stars or less in high school. Even first rounders are 60:40 ratio of 4 and 5 stars as compared to 3 star or less. Which simply means there are a nice group of very talented players lurking in that big pile of 3 stars, but they're much harder to find. If you were able to identify capable 3 stars at a rate consistent with the expected rate of success of 4 and 5 stars, which would you emphasize recruiting? Who do you think would work the hardest? Who do you think would bring the best attitudes to the locker room? Which do you think would reflect the blue-collar sensibilities of our coach?

And before the flames start, I didn't say that Butch had that capability, just pointing out that the statement that says you have to have 4 and 5 stars to win is provably false. You build an entire college team out of 3 stars that made the NFL, and I promise they will win championships. It really then comes down to how well you can find the wheat in the chaff. Butch's 3 star bonanza may prove to be his downfall, only time will tell. But it just may be that they are capable of picking 3 star winners at a rate much higher than others, and you may not see that much of a drop over time, even if the services disagree.
Click to expand...

Accurate, logical, factual.....there is no place for that on volnation. I am emailing Freak to make sure he deletes this post asap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#260
#260
SSVol said:
So hypothetically: Well over half of the NFL were 3 stars or less in high school. Even first rounders are 60:40 ratio of 4 and 5 stars as compared to 3 star or less. Which simply means there are a nice group of very talented players lurking in that big pile of 3 stars, but they're much harder to find. If you were able to identify capable 3 stars at a rate consistent with the expected rate of success of 4 and 5 stars, which would you emphasize recruiting? Who do you think would work the hardest? Who do you think would bring the best attitudes to the locker room? Which do you think would reflect the blue-collar sensibilities of our coach?

And before the flames start, I didn't say that Butch had that capability, just pointing out that the statement that says you have to have 4 and 5 stars to win is provably false. You build an entire college team out of 3 stars that made the NFL, and I promise they will win championships. It really then comes down to how well you can find the wheat in the chaff. Butch's 3 star bonanza may prove to be his downfall, only time will tell. But it just may be that they are capable of picking 3 star winners at a rate much higher than others, and you may not see that much of a drop over time, even if the services disagree.
Click to expand...

I don't think the data is going to back you up on signing just 3 star players if you want to win big in college football. The teams that win national titles have top 10 classes. We are where we are today because we signed 2 top ten classes. Imagine this team without Hurd, Kamara, and Barnett. Even Dobbs was a 4 star.
 
#261
#261
SSVol said:
So hypothetically: Well over half of the NFL were 3 stars or less in high school. Even first rounders are 60:40 ratio of 4 and 5 stars as compared to 3 star or less. Which simply means there are a nice group of very talented players lurking in that big pile of 3 stars, but they're much harder to find. If you were able to identify capable 3 stars at a rate consistent with the expected rate of success of 4 and 5 stars, which would you emphasize recruiting? Who do you think would work the hardest? Who do you think would bring the best attitudes to the locker room? Which do you think would reflect the blue-collar sensibilities of our coach?

And before the flames start, I didn't say that Butch had that capability, just pointing out that the statement that says you have to have 4 and 5 stars to win is provably false. You build an entire college team out of 3 stars that made the NFL, and I promise they will win championships. It really then comes down to how well you can find the wheat in the chaff. Butch's 3 star bonanza may prove to be his downfall, only time will tell. But it just may be that they are capable of picking 3 star winners at a rate much higher than others, and you may not see that much of a drop over time, even if the services disagree.
Click to expand...

F-
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#262
#262
SSVol said:
So hypothetically: Well over half of the NFL were 3 stars or less in high school. Even first rounders are 60:40 ratio of 4 and 5 stars as compared to 3 star or less. Which simply means there are a nice group of very talented players lurking in that big pile of 3 stars, but they're much harder to find. If you were able to identify capable 3 stars at a rate consistent with the expected rate of success of 4 and 5 stars, which would you emphasize recruiting? Who do you think would work the hardest? Who do you think would bring the best attitudes to the locker room? Which do you think would reflect the blue-collar sensibilities of our coach?

And before the flames start, I didn't say that Butch had that capability, just pointing out that the statement that says you have to have 4 and 5 stars to win is provably false. You build an entire college team out of 3 stars that made the NFL, and I promise they will win championships. It really then comes down to how well you can find the wheat in the chaff. Butch's 3 star bonanza may prove to be his downfall, only time will tell. But it just may be that they are capable of picking 3 star winners at a rate much higher than others, and you may not see that much of a drop over time, even if the services disagree.
Click to expand...
L
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#264
#264
SSVol said:
F-? L? Smart. I see nobody has actually answered the point though.
Click to expand...

You lost me when you made the comment who would work harder and have better attitudes? And the nonsense around that part of the hypothetical. Just maybe the 4-5* guys got there by working harder and in accomplishing it gained a better attitude. Your hypothetical asked was it possible. History says no. Especially in a place like the SEC.

Signing only 3*. Other coaches would use it to negative recruit you like crazy. Wait, its probably already happening in this class.
 
#266
#266
CrunchingTheVolz said:
You lost me when you made the comment who would work harder and have better attitudes? And the nonsense around that part of the hypothetical. Just maybe the 4-5* guys got there by working harder and in accomplishing it gained a better attitude. Your hypothetical asked was it possible. History says no. Especially in a place like the SEC.

Signing only 3*. Other coaches would use it to negative recruit you like crazy. Wait, its probably already happening in this class.
Click to expand...

Those were questions, and you'll see that I didn't actually answer them, although we all know many examples of those in support of our particular bias. The only hypothetical was if you were capable of picking the 3 stars that made the league, would you focus on recruiting them or the 4 and 5 stars.

If you could correctly pick the quality 3 stars, negative recruiting wouldn't matter.
 
#267
#267
I would act surprised that all of you missed the actual point being made in that post, but I am not surprised at all. It had to do with the number of 3-stars that become all-conference and NFL players. Enough each year to, dare I say, fill a starting offense and defense completely? So based on the facts you could have 11 3-star starters on both sides of the ball that all get drafted. So the question was, is there any credence to a coaching staff being able to scout recruits at an elite level and distinguish which 3-stars have what it takes to make the NFL? There will be enough 3-stars in just the 2016 class that make the NFL to fill a starting roster. The conversation centers around coaching staffs being able to determine which ones it will be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#268
#268
therickbol said:
I would act surprised that all of you missed the actual point being made in that post, but I am not surprised at all. It had to do with the number of 3-stars that become all-conference and NFL players. Enough each year to, dare I say, fill a starting offense and defense completely? So based on the facts you could have 11 3-star starters on both sides of the ball that all get drafted. So the question was, is there any credence to a coaching staff being able to scout recruits at an elite level and distinguish which 3-stars have what it takes to make the NFL? There will be enough 3-stars in just the 2016 class that make the NFL to fill a starting roster. The conversation centers around coaching staffs being able to determine which ones it will be.
Click to expand...

The truth is rarely as good as you hope or as bad as you fear, so even the most optimistic thoughts on the staff's evaluation prowess is probably not good enough to build an entire roster of 3 stars and still win at the level we want...but...given that the staff is becoming known for evaluations, I think it is reasonable to expect that their top 15 classes might compete well with other's top 5. That won't placate the astronomers, but it gives me some comfort that we aren't gonna fall back to Dooley-esque suckitude.
 
#269
#269
therickbol said:
I would act surprised that all of you missed the actual point being made in that post, but I am not surprised at all. It had to do with the number of 3-stars that become all-conference and NFL players. Enough each year to, dare I say, fill a starting offense and defense completely? So based on the facts you could have 11 3-star starters on both sides of the ball that all get drafted. So the question was, is there any credence to a coaching staff being able to scout recruits at an elite level and distinguish which 3-stars have what it takes to make the NFL? There will be enough 3-stars in just the 2016 class that make the NFL to fill a starting roster. The conversation centers around coaching staffs being able to determine which ones it will be.
Click to expand...

Odds are no staff is good enough to be that lucky to sign all 3 stars that end up NFL players. Sprinkle Ina few is fine but at the end of the day recruiting sites don't miss on everyone and most pan out. Maybe the # rank is off but most part they are 4-5 star for a reason.

Think of why we are back to this national spotlight right now. Majority are guys that were a 4 star or above on at least one major site.

Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Preston, Jennings, Malone, Barnett, JRM, Tuttle, KMAC, Kirkland, Martin, Gaulden, Kelly JR. A lot of key key guys that put you over the hump from a good team to a great team.

When I think of guys like Wolf, Sutton, Coleman Thomas, Robertson who were 3 stars that have become impact players they are great stories but heck i though they should have been 4 stars during recruiting and wasn't sure why they weren't.
 
#270
#270
Nashvegas31 said:
Odds are no staff is good enough to be that lucky to sign all 3 stars that end up NFL players. Sprinkle Ina few is fine but at the end of the day recruiting sites don't miss on everyone and most pan out. Maybe the # rank is off but most part they are 4-5 star for a reason.

Think of why we are back to this national spotlight right now. Majority are guys that were a 4 star or above on at least one major site.

Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Preston, Jennings, Malone, Barnett, JRM, Tuttle, KMAC, Kirkland, Martin, Gaulden, Kelly JR. A lot of key key guys that put you over the hump from a good team to a great team.

When I think of guys like Wolf, Sutton, Coleman Thomas, Robertson who were 3 stars that have become impact players they are great stories but heck i though they should have been 4 stars during recruiting and wasn't sure why they weren't.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with any of this. My effort was mostly to help any that are willing to see that even if this class steps back a bit, it probably isn't as much as feared. If Butch puts the questions to bed this year, and we put half a dozen in the league, the '18 class should be back to former levels and '17 will only be a minor impact.
 
#271
#271
SSVol said:
I don't disagree with any of this. My effort was mostly to help any that are willing to see that even if this class steps back a bit, it probably isn't as much as feared. If Butch puts the questions to bed this year, and we put half a dozen in the league, the '18 class should be back to former levels and '17 will only be a minor impact.
Click to expand...

It's all a bunch of fuss about nothing really because in watching Butch the past few years he likes to have a foundation in place for class so he can go hard after big fish and if it gets late and he needs a spot by grabbing more big players than he thought he isn't afraid to replace a lesser talented player. Also most of his 3 stars end up getting bumps by seasons end making it fuss for nothing lol

He also wants some guys willing to develop and not transfer for not starting as a freshman
 
#272
#272
SSVol said:
The truth is rarely as good as you hope or as bad as you fear, so even the most optimistic thoughts on the staff's evaluation prowess is probably not good enough to build an entire roster of 3 stars and still win at the level we want...but...given that the staff is becoming known for evaluations, I think it is reasonable to expect that their top 15 classes might compete well with other's top 5. That won't placate the astronomers, but it gives me some comfort that we aren't gonna fall back to Dooley-esque suckitude.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The fact is there are enough lower rated players that become impact college players and ultimately NFL players that it becomes more about finding them through proper evaluation. If a staff proves they can have a higher success rate (not 100% obv) of lower rated recruits that become impact players then as you say a Top 15 Signing Day "rated" class can certainly compete with a Top 5 Signing Day "rated" class with a lower success rate. It's still somewhat early but so far I think our staff (including behind the scenes guys) have shown to have a high success rate. How will that look continuing into the future? Don't know for sure but I certainly have enough confidence to at least not run around like Chicken Little.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#273
#273
A three star doesn't mean they are bad players. I've always seen it as, they probably won't start as a freshman. I don't want to have a team of project players but a lot of three stars are three stars because of weight or maturity. It doesn't mean they don't have talent.

And a five star means that they are more ready to play as a freshman and that they are talented.

This comes down to, if you trust your talent evaluators. I think BJ an company have a very good record in this department.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top