'18 FL CB Jordan Miner

#126
#126
the other good news is that it's still June, 6 months til the 1st signing date, and 8 months til Feb signing date....so there's still a lot that can happen. this class isn't done yet...
 
#127
#127
MrVolton said:
And then of course, there's the 2016 Vandy game.
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Worst individual LB performance I've ever seen in a single game. Luckily he barely played in the Nebraska game. Of course, it was no coincidence when he was in there Nebraska went right down the field on us in back to back drives.
 
#128
#128
MrVolton said:
I think the back 7 on D has been one of the major issues for a couple years now. I feel like the DL has held up their end for the most part, but when a QB can take a 2 step drop and launch it up the sidelines because you don't have anybody that can defend a go route, there's only so much they can do. I know people want to blame the Florida loss in 2015 on Butch Jones and the chart and not going for two, but for me, blame for that loss will always rest squarely on giving up a 4th and forever for a TD despite rushing only 3. Jumper's inability to cover was one of the big differences in the 2015 Oklahoma game as well. And then of course, there's the 2016 Vandy game.
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well by the end of 2016, if you could walk w/out a limp, you played DT.:)

and our options at LB were limited to start the year, and only got worse, starting in game 1.

the DB's didn't show any improvement, and the ones that had promise, all missed time.

excuses...sure. but it did happen. we still have some basic personnel issues....and probably still trying to figure a few things out at LB and CB....

as for the games you mentioned...the defenses in the OU and FL games mentioned actually did play very well, on the whole.

the OU game, i still can't get over how many "almost" sacks we had on that kid...dude is slippery. and in the FL game...blame that on that stupid 4th and 14 call. the defense played plenty good enough to win that game, but we crawled in to our shell on the last two possessions on offense, and played % on defense.

you remember how many 4th downs we gave up that year? it was ridiculous. iirc we were top 2 in the conf in 3rd down conversion %, and i think worst on 4th down conversion %.

anywho. it needs to be better. that's for sure.:thumbsup:
 
#129
#129
jakez4ut said:
well by the end of 2016, if you could walk w/out a limp, you played DT.:)

and our options at LB were limited to start the year, and only got worse, starting in game 1.

the DB's didn't show any improvement, and the ones that had promise, all missed time.

excuses...sure. but it did happen. we still have some basic personnel issues....and probably still trying to figure a few things out at LB and CB....

as for the games you mentioned...the defenses in the OU and FL games mentioned actually did play very well, on the whole.

the OU game, i still can't get over how many "almost" sacks we had on that kid...dude is slippery. and in the FL game...blame that on that stupid 4th and 14 call. the defense played plenty good enough to win that game, but we crawled in to our shell on the last two possessions on offense, and played % on defense.

you remember how many 4th downs we gave up that year? it was ridiculous. iirc we were top 2 in the conf in 3rd down conversion %, and i think worst on 4th down conversion %.

anywho. it needs to be better. that's for sure.:thumbsup:
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3rd down for what?
 
#131
#131
Montrell Hardy said:
Worst individual LB performance I've ever seen in a single game. Luckily he barely played in the Nebraska game. Of course, it was no coincidence when he was in there Nebraska went right down the field on us in back to back drives.
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Yep. I wasn't trying to call him out individually for that one though as the coverage in that game was so bad it truly took a collaborative effort.
 
#137
#137
Montrell Hardy said:
I didn't have a huge problem with Martinez like some did. I thought he did a good job with his DB's in 2015. Last year was obviously a mess and clearly there were issues between him and Shoop. I think it's a good thing he's gone, but I dont think ALL the blame lies squarely on his shoulders. And I know I continue to harp on this but the horrendous off-season with the S&C program was likely the root cause of almost all the problems on that side of the ball. Nearly all of the guys just looked out of shape and weak and it was surely a factor with so many injuries as well.

I've never been high on Moseley. I cant figure out how he has gotten PT. Not nearly physical enough and plays way too passive without much confidence, which is a nightmare combination for a cornerback.

I do have hopes for Martin this year. Talent-wise he absolutely has it. I also think he plays with confidence when he's out there. If he can put it together, him and Wiggins should be a solid starting duo. Problem is they are only a 1 year fix since both are seniors.

And yeah LB is a huge concern. And I think one of the biggest issues is as a staff they don't even seem to know what they want to do with how they've moved guys like Smith and Bituli to End and then back to LB. Running a 4-2-5 with small LB's makes zero sense to me though. If you are going to have 5 DB's out there in your base you better be damn sure your LB's are physical and big enough to play in the box or teams are going to run right over you.
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It is tough to guess what is going through someone elses head, especially someone like a head coach. All we really have to go on is educated guesses. Re the strength and conditioning coach...from the outside it looks like Butch really expected the Juniors and Seniors to lead heavily once the coach left. Let them drive the team to success. Obviously it was a bad choice and it showed from game 1. Who knows i could be wrong.
 
#138
#138
MrVolton said:
I'm generally an optimist, but that class on paper is not on par with the SEC elite. As I said, I like Labruzza, but I see Gray growing into a S/LB hybrid. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to know enough to bash Shamburger or Bailey, but the jury is definitely still out on those guys IMO.
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its not elite but nobody has seen them play yet? we dont know what it is. It could be. It may not be. Kind of a stretch there.
 
#141
#141
Montrell Hardy said:
I didn't have a huge problem with Martinez like some did. I thought he did a good job with his DB's in 2015. Last year was obviously a mess and clearly there were issues between him and Shoop. I think it's a good thing he's gone, but I dont think ALL the blame lies squarely on his shoulders. And I know I continue to harp on this but the horrendous off-season with the S&C program was likely the root cause of almost all the problems on that side of the ball. Nearly all of the guys just looked out of shape and weak and it was surely a factor with so many injuries as well.

I've never been high on Moseley. I cant figure out how he has gotten PT. Not nearly physical enough and plays way too passive without much confidence, which is a nightmare combination for a cornerback.

I do have hopes for Martin this year. Talent-wise he absolutely has it. I also think he plays with confidence when he's out there. If he can put it together, him and Wiggins should be a solid starting duo. Problem is they are only a 1 year fix since both are seniors.

And yeah LB is a huge concern. And I think one of the biggest issues is as a staff they don't even seem to know what they want to do with how they've moved guys like Smith and Bituli to End and then back to LB. Running a 4-2-5 with small LB's makes zero sense to me though. If you are going to have 5 DB's out there in your base you better be damn sure your LB's are physical and big enough to play in the box or teams are going to run right over you.
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Thanks for being a realist. I agree with your observation sir
 
#142
#142
fearsvols said:
It is tough to guess what is going through someone elses head, especially someone like a head coach. All we really have to go on is educated guesses. Re the strength and conditioning coach...from the outside it looks like Butch really expected the Juniors and Seniors to lead heavily once the coach left. Let them drive the team to success. Obviously it was a bad choice and it showed from game 1. Who knows i could be wrong.
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You can never expect a team to train itself. Hire a man to do that job and be done with it.
 
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#143
#143
MrVolton said:
I think the back 7 on D has been one of the major issues for a couple years now. I feel like the DL has held up their end for the most part, but when a QB can take a 2 step drop and launch it up the sidelines because you don't have anybody that can defend a go route, there's only so much they can do. I know people want to blame the Florida loss in 2015 on Butch Jones and the chart and not going for two, but for me, blame for that loss will always rest squarely on giving up a 4th and forever for a TD despite rushing only 3. Jumper's inability to cover was one of the big differences in the 2015 Oklahoma game as well. And then of course, there's the 2016 Vandy game.
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They were all reasons they lost the 2015 Fl game imo
 
#144
#144
MrVolton said:
I'm generally an optimist, but that class on paper is not on par with the SEC elite. As I said, I like Labruzza, but I see Gray growing into a S/LB hybrid. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to know enough to bash Shamburger or Bailey, but the jury is definitely still out on those guys IMO.
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I the two Louisiana DBs a lot at CB. The others are a mixed bag so we'll see. When a kid is 19 years old in HS I kind of wait and see because he's dominating younger competition when he should be in college.
 
#145
#145
jakez4ut said:
don't know how you feel about Martinez as the DB coach, but i'm fairly optimistic with Warren now....i think we have some pretty good talent at CB....but very inconsistent, and basically, underdeveloped.

i thought both Foreman and Mosely both got better as 2015 wore on, especially Foreman and was expecting them both to pick up where they left off in 16...neither really did, though Foreman probably wound up being the better of two last season.

rooting hard for Mosely and Martin to "get it" and become more consistent.

as for the future...i think we've done pretty good at Safety. CB, i agree, we haven't really pushed for more sure bets at the position...hoping to see that change with Warren.

still think LB is a bigger concern, and i think you do too...
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Moseley shouldn't play another down at UT. IMO Just was a project that didn't work out. Plays scared if he doesn't have safety help so I can't deal with him at DB.
 
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#146
#146
Montrell Hardy said:
Worst individual LB performance I've ever seen in a single game. Luckily he barely played in the Nebraska game. Of course, it was no coincidence when he was in there Nebraska went right down the field on us in back to back drives.
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But people will argue that he is a good LB and played well for us last year. Smh
 
#147
#147
You guys think having Hoke on staff will change the type LBs we recruit? How much influence will he have since that isn't "his" position group?
 
#148
#148
LaagerVol said:
But people will argue that he is a good LB and played well for us last year. Smh
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People are arguing me down over Thigpen. I know he's fallen off recruiting wise. And his LBs just will not attack RBs or O-lineman with any kind of physicality. When is the last time you've seen a RB get just rocked to send the message early on? AJ Johnson vs Oklahoma in Butch second year??? That's the last one I remember. That group needs a new presence that can recruit as well.

And everyone saying Hoke can help and all need to stop. Thigpen gets paid six figures to coach football. If he can't do his job he doesn't need to be on staff. This isn't middle school or pop warner. We are a traditional powerhouse and need the best of the best here.
 
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#149
#149
The Breakerboy said:
People are arguing me down over Thigpen. I know he's fallen off recruiting wise. And his LBs just will not attack RBs or O-lineman with any kind of physicality. When is the last time you've seen a RB get just rocked to send the message early on? AJ Johnson vs Oklahoma in Butch second year??? That's the last one I remember. That group needs a new presence that can recruit as well.

And everyone saying Hoke can help and all need to stop. Thigpen gets paid six figures to coach football. If he can't do his job he doesn't need to be on staff. This isn't middle school or pop warner. We are a traditional powerhouse and need the best of the best here.
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This
 
#150
#150
The Breakerboy said:
People are arguing me down over Thigpen. I know he's fallen off recruiting wise. And his LBs just will not attack RBs or O-lineman with any kind of physicality. When is the last time you've seen a RB get just rocked to send the message early on? AJ Johnson vs Oklahoma in Butch second year??? That's the last one I remember. That group needs a new presence that can recruit as well.

And everyone saying Hoke can help and all need to stop. Thigpen gets paid six figures to coach football. If he can't do his job he doesn't need to be on staff. This isn't middle school or pop warner. We are a traditional powerhouse and need the best of the best here.
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Personally, I wouldn't mind if Butch let Thig go. I just think his best years are behind him and lost that fire in his eyes. His LB recruiting this year hasn't been great either.
 
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