'18 FL CB Jordan Miner

#151
#151
The Breakerboy said:
Moseley shouldn't play another down at UT. IMO Just was a project that didn't work out. Plays scared if he doesn't have safety help so I can't deal with him at DB.
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I don't really disagree...wiggins and Martin would be my guess right now
 
#152
#152
The Breakerboy said:
People are arguing me down over Thigpen. I know he's fallen off recruiting wise. And his LBs just will not attack RBs or O-lineman with any kind of physicality. When is the last time you've seen a RB get just rocked to send the message early on? AJ Johnson vs Oklahoma in Butch second year??? That's the last one I remember. That group needs a new presence that can recruit as well.

And everyone saying Hoke can help and all need to stop. Thigpen gets paid six figures to coach football. If he can't do his job he doesn't need to be on staff. This isn't middle school or pop warner. We are a traditional powerhouse and need the best of the best here.
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I think more are starting to see it this way, self included, in regards to Thigpen
 
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#153
#153
jakez4ut said:
I don't really disagree...wiggins and Martin would be my guess right now
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Wiggins is the best one out of the whole bunch. Martin still needs improvement but has shown flashes. Honestly with his height, there's no reason he can't lock down defenders. He just needs to learn to turn his head and look for the ball. Hopefully Warren can coach them all up properly than Martinez did.
 
#154
#154
The Breakerboy said:
People are arguing me down over Thigpen. I know he's fallen off recruiting wise. And his LBs just will not attack RBs or O-lineman with any kind of physicality. When is the last time you've seen a RB get just rocked to send the message early on? AJ Johnson vs Oklahoma in Butch second year??? That's the last one I remember. That group needs a new presence that can recruit as well.

And everyone saying Hoke can help and all need to stop. Thigpen gets paid six figures to coach football. If he can't do his job he doesn't need to be on staff. This isn't middle school or pop warner. We are a traditional powerhouse and need the best of the best here.
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Colton Jumper accidentally murdered a RB in the backfield last year. Not the norm tho
 
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#156
#156
VolFreakJosh said:
Personally, I wouldn't mind if Butch let Thig go. I just think his best years are behind him and lost that fire in his eyes. His LB recruiting this year hasn't been great either.
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What LB has he recruited this year? Because UT has none committed, so far. Flint, Cam Jones, Jibunor and Peters, are the ones I can think of, off the top of my head right now. Don't know if he is the head recruiter on all of them. Maybe McGrone, too. But they want to move the best one, imo, Jibunor to DE. Dumb, imo and we probably have no chance of getting McGrone and Peters. Although, I hope I am wrong because I like those 3 kids better than Jones and Flint. But, I would take Jones and Flint, in a NY minute, if we can't get any of the others.

Oh yeah, I agree, it may be time to let Thig go
 
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#158
#158
The Breakerboy said:
People are arguing me down over Thigpen. I know he's fallen off recruiting wise. And his LBs just will not attack RBs or O-lineman with any kind of physicality. When is the last time you've seen a RB get just rocked to send the message early on? AJ Johnson vs Oklahoma in Butch second year??? That's the last one I remember. That group needs a new presence that can recruit as well.

And everyone saying Hoke can help and all need to stop. Thigpen gets paid six figures to coach football. If he can't do his job he doesn't need to be on staff. This isn't middle school or pop warner. We are a traditional powerhouse and need the best of the best here.
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Hoke can help by making sure the dline is getting two yards of forward push rather than the dline getting pushed back 2 yards. Linebackers play best when they have a clear path to their spot. I've mentioned this in a few other posts but our dline was the biggest reason for our poor linebacker play aside from injury. I'm looking forward to a much better year for our defensive interior.
 
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#161
#161
The Breakerboy said:
People are arguing me down over Thigpen. I know he's fallen off recruiting wise. And his LBs just will not attack RBs or O-lineman with any kind of physicality. When is the last time you've seen a RB get just rocked to send the message early on? AJ Johnson vs Oklahoma in Butch second year??? That's the last one I remember. That group needs a new presence that can recruit as well.

And everyone saying Hoke can help and all need to stop. Thigpen gets paid six figures to coach football. If he can't do his job he doesn't need to be on staff. This isn't middle school or pop warner. We are a traditional powerhouse and need the best of the best here.
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when I went back and rewatched some of the games it was hard to believe how passive they were. Only one I saw that would attack was McDowell, and he was hit or miss.

*Edit. Not including JRM in this discussion
 
#162
#162
gc49ervol said:
Hoke can help by making sure the dline is getting two yards of forward push rather than the dline getting pushed back 2 yards. Linebackers play best when they have a clear path to their spot. I've mentioned this in a few other posts but our dline was the biggest reason for our poor linebacker play aside from injury. I'm looking forward to a much better year for our defensive interior.
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I agree that the OL basically had free release to our LBs constantly and that makes it tough on a LB, but they never took on the block in the hole and pretty much waited on the OL to come to them then tried to get around them.
 
#163
#163
Montrell Hardy said:
I didn't have a huge problem with Martinez like some did. I thought he did a good job with his DB's in 2015. Last year was obviously a mess and clearly there were issues between him and Shoop. I think it's a good thing he's gone, but I dont think ALL the blame lies squarely on his shoulders. And I know I continue to harp on this but the horrendous off-season with the S&C program was likely the root cause of almost all the problems on that side of the ball. Nearly all of the guys just looked out of shape and weak and it was surely a factor with so many injuries as well.

I've never been high on Moseley. I cant figure out how he has gotten PT. Not nearly physical enough and plays way too passive without much confidence, which is a nightmare combination for a cornerback.

I do have hopes for Martin this year. Talent-wise he absolutely has it. I also think he plays with confidence when he's out there. If he can put it together, him and Wiggins should be a solid starting duo. Problem is they are only a 1 year fix since both are seniors.

And yeah LB is a huge concern. And I think one of the biggest issues is as a staff they don't even seem to know what they want to do with how they've moved guys like Smith and Bituli to End and then back to LB. Running a 4-2-5 with small LB's makes zero sense to me though. If you are going to have 5 DB's out there in your base you better be damn sure your LB's are physical and big enough to play in the box or teams are going to run right over you.
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FTR, Bituli never moved to end (not sure where you're getting that) and Smith only played end in Spring 2016 because his weight got so out of control he wasn't in shape to play LB anymore.

They moved him back to LB in the fall, but it flew under the radar since he was redshirting due to injury.
 
#168
#168
Montrell Hardy said:
I didn't have a huge problem with Martinez like some did. I thought he did a good job with his DB's in 2015. Last year was obviously a mess and clearly there were issues between him and Shoop. I think it's a good thing he's gone, but I dont think ALL the blame lies squarely on his shoulders. And I know I continue to harp on this but the horrendous off-season with the S&C program was likely the root cause of almost all the problems on that side of the ball. Nearly all of the guys just looked out of shape and weak and it was surely a factor with so many injuries as well.

I've never been high on Moseley. I cant figure out how he has gotten PT. Not nearly physical enough and plays way too passive without much confidence, which is a nightmare combination for a cornerback.

I do have hopes for Martin this year. Talent-wise he absolutely has it. I also think he plays with confidence when he's out there. If he can put it together, him and Wiggins should be a solid starting duo. Problem is they are only a 1 year fix since both are seniors.

And yeah LB is a huge concern. And I think one of the biggest issues is as a staff they don't even seem to know what they want to do with how they've moved guys like Smith and Bituli to End and then back to LB. Running a 4-2-5 with small LB's makes zero sense to me though. If you are going to have 5 DB's out there in your base you better be damn sure your LB's are physical and big enough to play in the box or teams are going to run right over you.
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I can't agree with this. I saw Martin swat, panicked imo, way too early at WRs and draw the PI for that to be true. he always forced the issue and he just didn't have the timing down or something to make the play. he never seemed to trust himself or the system. IIRC so many of his PIs came on the sidelines, if you play with confidence you know you are either making the play or the guy catches and goes out of bounds. Why the foul?

Moseley imo is best within 10 yards, less than 7 would be preferable, from the line of scrimmage. once you got beyond that yeah he is beat. but if the play is to his front he is decent.
 
#169
#169
LouderVol said:
I can't agree with this. I saw Martin swat, panicked imo, way too early at WRs and draw the PI for that to be true. he always forced the issue and he just didn't have the timing down or something to make the play. he never seemed to trust himself or the system. IIRC so many of his PIs came on the sidelines, if you play with confidence you know you are either making the play or the guy catches and goes out of bounds. Why the foul?

Moseley imo is best within 10 yards, less than 7 would be preferable, from the line of scrimmage. once you got beyond that yeah he is beat. but if the play is to his front he is decent.
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Martin was better the year before. Much much better IMO

The talent is there for sure.
 
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#170
#170
The Breakerboy said:
Martin was better the year before. Much much better IMO

The talent is there for sure.
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I will agree with this. But there was a clear reason he got benched last year. he was a guaranteed 15.

I don't think he was ready for the prime time either of the two years. his first year he had Sutton; last year we were depending on him, or anyone to step up, and he wasn't ready. for whatever reason, I do not know.
 
#171
#171
Even if he does commit to PSU it won't stick.

They'll drop off a little bit this year. When he visits in late October it'll be really cold. And it's far from home.
 
#172
#172
LouderVol said:
I will agree with this. But there was a clear reason he got benched last year. he was a guaranteed 15.

I don't think he was ready for the prime time either of the two years. his first year he had Sutton; last year we were depending on him, or anyone to step up, and he wasn't ready. for whatever reason, I do not know.
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He got benched because he was getting into it with Martinez. All the guaranteed 15 talk is hogwash. He got two in Va.Tech game on a 6'7 dude who was pushing off. Martin outplayed Sutton versus Bama a couple of years ago too. He had a bad year last year as did the entire secondary outside of Gaulden.
 
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#173
#173
The Breakerboy said:
He got benched because he was getting into it with Martinez. All the guaranteed 15 talk is hogwash. He got two in Va.Tech game on a 6'7 dude who was pushing off. Martin outplayed Sutton versus Bama a couple of years ago too. He had a bad year last year as did the entire secondary outside of Gaulden.
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again, and jmo, but if its just a push off you aren't going to panic and swat. thats not confidence. he was playing beat that whole game. only reason I can't speak to the rest of the season is because I haven't watched those games recently, or at least ones where he actually played.
 
#174
#174
LouderVol said:
again, and jmo, but if its just a push off you aren't going to panic and swat. thats not confidence. he was playing beat that whole game. only reason I can't speak to the rest of the season is because I haven't watched those games recently, or at least ones where he actually played.
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Well it's called hand fighting. He didn't even grab the dude. Just didn't get his head around. Florida DBs do what he does all game with one exception, they get their heads around and find the ball. That's all we need Martin to do. His first year the South Carolina game he was dominating P.Cooper. The same targeting shot he dropped a pick on it. Dropped another pick in that game. If he has a big year I won't be surprised. And Wiggins will be one of the best CBs in America.

Defense could really surprise if the LBs give us something. Talent on the backend and D-line is very very good. LBs are pedestrian.....

SN: he had two PIs which equate to 30 yards worth of catches. No other catches were given up by him. Sooooo yeah.... make it out to be worst than what it is. His worst play of the game was diving in like a madman on that long TD run instead of setting the edge.
 
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#175
#175
Per Hubbs

I wouldn't be surprised anywhere he goes and from a timeline standpoint, who knows.

There was talk he was deciding last Friday, then Saturday, then it was going to be Monday. Obviously it didn't happen. Heard in the last 24 hours he might visit Tennessee again before he decides. Miner has also been quoted as saying he won't do anything until after official visits.
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